[Chatty]

This might sound a bit silly at first because he does get a lot of hype from the general fans of the sport. In fact some tend to overrate Marciano to the point where he is considered the greatest heavyweight to have graced the ring.

On the otherside of the spectrum, the hardcore fans seem to give him hardly any credibility whatsoever. I have often talked with big fans of the sport who consistently put him down as a clumsy slugger in a poor era of heavyweights - which does hold some weight but at the end of the day Marciano could only beat who was in front of him with the tools he was given.

I doubt even general fans would describe him as the most technically gifted athlete and he was flawed in many technical aspects but he still managed to find a way to win against sounder boxers such as Walcott, Moore, Charles etc even if they were faded by the time he fought them.

Also for some one with little technical ability then i think you have to give him a certain amount of credit for keeping himself in brilliant shape and showing amazing determination inside the ring. the other thing going for him is that he pretty much beat everyone around in his era, their might be a few who didn't get the fight such as Valdez but overall their is little to suspect that he ducked any fighter.

So what do you think, is he overlooked by some or are the hardcores correct. How do you rate Rocky?

 

[Vano-irons]

I have him around 7th in my list. He achieved a lot in the sport, and beat every opponent he ever faced. But I can't rate him higher than that. His bests wins were Charles (light heavyweight), Moore (light heavyweight) and Jersey Joe (who was kicking his arse first time around before that brutal stoppage). It's just too thin for me.

Plus, I think every major HW champion that followed Rocky beats him, with the exception of Patterson, Spinks, Rahman, Ingo and Moorer. He would have been an awesome Light Heavyweight by today's standards tho

 

[Swarmer]

old men and cruiserweights and old man cruiserweights

 

[Swarmer]

Rocky beats Johansson, Patterson, Frazier, Spinks, Douglas, Holyfield, Briggs, and Rahman for me.

I would also say he'd give Wlad a shitty time tbh.

 

[Teeto]

Rocky beats Johansson, Patterson, Frazier, Spinks, Douglas, Holyfield, Briggs, and Rahman for me.

.

agreed

I feel that Rocky is one of the GOATs in h2h terms for his size. At cruiserweight lets say.

 

[O59]

Marciano is more or less a top 5 guy for me. I've seen him both overrated and underrated.

 

[Michael]

Marciano is more or less a top 5 guy for me. I've seen him both overrated and underrated.

Based on what?

 

[O59]

Based on what?

Don't take that as a lock for top 5. More or less, as in I could happily have him around 7 or 8. Wins over Ezzard Charles x2, Jersey Joe Walcott x2, Archie Moore, Roland LaStarza x2, and Joe Louis is a good list of names albeit most of them were past it. I do give him a lot of credit for the first Walcott fight, he showed the quality of a great boxer by overcoming adversity and showing heart.
Another thing that I compliment Rocky on is the fact that he gave all of his toughest opponents re-matches. He re-matched Walcott immediately and took him out within a round, re-matched LaStarza, Charles, etc. He didn't just take a tough fight and move on, he gave them fair re-matches.

The unbeaten record helps also. He beat everybody he ever faced, never lost in the pro ranks, fought everybody he could in a relatively weak era and did most of it by knockout. This is just my opinion, of course.

 

[Flea Man]

7,8 or 9 for me.

Tunney would be his hardest bout 190 and below IMO.

I'll take the lightest Heavyweight Holy against him. But yes, Marciano Vs Evander of Qawi I=late stoppage for The Brockton Blockbuster.

 

[Luf]

It was only when revaluating my list I appreciated how great rocky was. in a h2h sense he's out of his depth in the top 20 or so, but based on resume and achievement he's a lock for the top 10.

beating charles, walcott and moore all by knockout is sensational considering all are top 50 hw's and charles and jersey grace most top 20's.

he cleaned out his era barring valdes but then destroyed the man who beat him.

his competition considering his era is immensely strong and very few can rival it.

retiring undefeated is a nice bow to the arrow as well, plenty of men could, but rocky actually did.

what more could people want from him? I suppose he could have had valdes in there somewhere to take him to 50-0 and maybe even had a successful comeback v patterson but by and large his legacy is secure.

I agree though it's easy to take for granted what he did and considering his size it's easy to be underwhelmed by him. but an in depth look into his career should ALWAYS be enough to remind anyone he's top 10 worthy.

 

[Luf]

agreed

I feel that Rocky is one of the GOATs in h2h terms for his size. At cruiserweight lets say.

at thw cw limit I think he's h2h goat.

 

[john garfield]

This might sound a bit silly at first because he does get a lot of hype from the general fans of the sport. In fact some tend to overrate Marciano to the point where he is considered the greatest heavyweight to have graced the ring.

On the otherside of the spectrum, the hardcore fans seem to give him hardly any credibility whatsoever. I have often talked with big fans of the sport who consistently put him down as a clumsy slugger in a poor era of heavyweights - which does hold some weight but at the end of the day Marciano could only beat who was in front of him with the tools he was given.

I doubt even general fans would describe him as the most technically gifted athlete and he was flawed in many technical aspects but he still managed to find a way to win against sounder boxers such as Walcott, Moore, Charles etc even if they were faded by the time he fought them.

Also for some one with little technical ability then i think you have to give him a certain amount of credit for keeping himself in brilliant shape and showing amazing determination inside the ring. the other thing going for him is that he pretty much beat everyone around in his era, their might be a few who didn't get the fight such as Valdez but overall their is little to suspect that he ducked any fighter.

So what do you think, is he overlooked by some or are the hardcores correct. How do you rate Rocky?

Rocky's name conjures lots of memories, chatty:

I watched him train in NYC, in camp in the Catskill Mountains, and fight live.

He was an acquired taste; it took a LONG time. But, even skeptics on Jacob's Beach became believers.

He was clumsier sparring than a ham-'n'-egger against most half-decent boxers in the gym...and it didn't help that he resembled the Michelin Man in layers of sweat clothes, wearing gloves that looked like pillows on Thalidomide arms.

Seeing him before the bell gave no hint of his being any kind of a fighter -- let alone world class -- more like a catcher to hone some one else's tools.

A first-time observer would've advised him to pick up a hard hat.

His only lesson could be: what NOT to do.

But every guy who looked like he sparred rings around him -- pinned his ears back -- never missed him with jabs -- came out of the ring lookin' like he dropped from a 10-story building and landed flat-footed.

Rocky's cuffing, pawing, mauling, grazing shots, flicks to the sides when tied-up, impacted them like they'd been bumped by a rhino. From ringside, the only evidence was an "OOMPH!" grimace and quiver.

Rocky was ponderous. Fighters could see the punches. They weren't surprised; they were pounded down.

Every sparring partner who looked sensational against him, said the same thing exiting the ring: "I hurt all over."

For the wunderkinds and Robinson-clones that watched Rocky in the gym, he was like CANCER; something that could only happen to the OTHER guy, he was so crude.

Good fighters rage back if they've been stung…Sometimes instinct, sometimes pride, sometimes to ward off a predator who smells blood in the water.

The slick ones shoeshine for time.

The solid pros -- no matter how resolute -- after being buzzed are rarely able to rumble back with maximum firepower.

That was Rocky's edge: He hit just as hard when his knee cleared the canvas - or clearing cobwebs -- as he did at the opening bell.

Sure Rocky did all the things you read about to drain a man's will, but that SINGULAR ability was more demoralizing than anything else in his arsenal, according to Louis, Moore, Walcott and LaStarza, who I spoke with years later, and trainers Ray Arcel, ****** Bimstein, Al Silvani, and Freddie Brown.

Rocky's training sessions beggared the mind, onlookers cringed imagining what his cannonades to a depth-charge-sized heavy bag would do to them.

 

[Chatty]

Rocky's name conjures lots of memories, chatty:

I watched him train in NYC, in camp in the Catskill Mountains, and fight live.

He was an acquired taste; it took a LONG time. But, even skeptics on Jacob's Beach became believers.

He was clumsier sparring than a ham-'n'-egger against most half-decent boxers in the gym...and it didn't help that he resembled the Michelin Man in layers of sweat clothes, wearing gloves that looked like pillows on Thalidomide arms.

Seeing him before the bell gave no hint of his being any kind of a fighter -- let alone world class -- more like a catcher to hone some one else's tools.

A first-time observer would've advised him to pick up a hard hat.

His only lesson could be: what NOT to do.

But every guy who looked like he sparred rings around him -- pinned his ears back -- never missed him with jabs -- came out of the ring lookin' like he dropped from a 10-story building and landed flat-footed.

Rocky's cuffing, pawing, mauling, grazing shots, flicks to the sides when tied-up, impacted them like they'd been bumped by a rhino. From ringside, the only evidence was an "OOMPH!" grimace and quiver.

Rocky was ponderous. Fighters could see the punches. They weren't surprised; they were pounded down.

Every sparring partner who looked sensational against him, said the same thing exiting the ring: "I hurt all over."

For the wunderkinds and Robinson-clones that watched Rocky in the gym, he was like CANCER; something that could only happen to the OTHER guy, he was so crude.

Good fighters rage back if they've been stung…Sometimes instinct, sometimes pride, sometimes to ward off a predator who smells blood in the water.

The slick ones shoeshine for time.

The solid pros -- no matter how resolute -- after being buzzed are rarely able to rumble back with maximum firepower.

That was Rocky's edge: He hit just as hard when his knee cleared the canvas - or clearing cobwebs -- as he did at the opening bell.

Sure Rocky did all the things you read about to drain a man's will, but that SINGULAR ability was more demoralizing than anything else in his arsenal, according to Louis, Moore, Walcott and LaStarza, who I spoke with years later, and trainers Ray Arcel, ****** Bimstein, Al Silvani, and Freddie Brown.

Rocky's training sessions beggared the mind, onlookers cringed imagining what his cannonades to a depth-charge-sized heavy bag would do to them.

Good insight there, I've head it mentioned before in books that his power didn't wane later in the fight - that is a quality weapon to have

 

[James Figg]

Over-rated by casuals, under-rated by the hardcore.

He had imense power and would have been a World Champion in most decades (even if in some, such as the 70s, he wouldn't have held on to it for long) buthe was extremely crude and any decent boxer in his prime would have beaten him with a well thought out game plan. Ali, Holmes and Lewis would have all made him look silly.

Casuals see the 0 without asking the important questions.

 

[Luf]

Over-rated by casuals, under-rated by the hardcore.

He had imense power and would have been a World Champion in most decades (even if in some, such as the 70s, he wouldn't have held on to it for long) buthe was extremely crude and any decent boxer in his prime would have beaten him with a well thought out game plan. Ali, Holmes and Lewis would have all made him look silly.

Casuals see the 0 without asking the important questions.

pnly any decent boxer that couldn't make cw without chopping of their legs.

 

[James Figg]

pnly any decent boxer that couldn't make cw without chopping of their legs.

How do you see Vitali doing against him?

 

[john garfield]

Over-rated by casuals, under-rated by the hardcore.

He had imense power and would have been a World Champion in most decades (even if in some, such as the 70s, he wouldn't have held on to it for long) buthe was extremely crude and any decent boxer in his prime would have beaten him with a well thought out game plan. Ali, Holmes and Lewis would have all made him look silly.

Casuals see the 0 without asking the important questions.

Every game plan went out the window, first time they tasted a Rocky shot, JF. They deserved big props for stickin' with their strategy, absorbing terrible punishment, if it lasted 15

 

[Luf]

How do you see Vitali doing against him?

kicks the living shit out of him.

rocky is no quicker than Vitali and if there's anything Vitali can do it's time a shot, rocky will just walk onto punch after punch. rocky doesn't even have a puncher's chance in this one.

 

[john garfield]

kicks the living shit out of him.

rocky is no quicker than Vitali and if there's anything Vitali can do it's time a shot, rocky will just walk onto punch after punch. rocky doesn't even have a puncher's chance in this one.

Here's my two cents,l:

I won't get into who'd win…its a thankless task. But I will give you some observations that I think germane: Probably in no other sport is the ol' cliché more après Poe: "It ain't how big the dog's in the fight but how much fight's in the dog."

Every statistical advantage can be thrown out in a head-to-head clash.

lemme illustrate: In the 1930's, there was a match race between Seabisquit, a runt-of-a-claiming-stakes-horse -- that had lost to ordinary competition -- against the unbeaten, magnificent-looking thoroughbred, War Admiral, who shattered the mark for that distance…and stood hands higher than Seabisquit. On paper, it was no contest. Head-to-head, it was a different story.

The inexperienced U.S. college hockey players stood not a chance against the Russian monsters that won several Olympic Championships - with the same team -- and steamrolled everybody. To a man, they were bigger, faster, better, stronger, and more experienced. They'd've beaten NHL teams.

Came the game, they were out-played.

Jim Ryun was the U.S. premier miler - shattered the world record and was unbeaten. Marty Liquori was a tough competitive miler, but had nowhere near the credentials of Ryun or the gazelle stride. No odds-maker gave him a shot in their match race.

Liquori ground Ryun down in the last 100 yards, when they were matching strides. He out-gutted him at the finish line.

So, form sheets go out the window when two guys square off. It's who wants it more.

Nobody ever wanted it more than Rocky Marciano.

 

[Luf]

Here's my two cents,l:

I won't get into who'd win…its a thankless task. But I will give you some observations that I think germane: Probably in no other sport is the ol' cliché more après Poe: "It ain't how big the dog's in the fight but how much fight's in the dog."

Every statistical advantage can be thrown out in a head-to-head clash.

lemme illustrate: In the 1930's, there was a match race between Seabisquit, a runt-of-a-claiming-stakes-horse -- that had lost to ordinary competition -- against the unbeaten, magnificent-looking thoroughbred, War Admiral, who shattered the mark for that distance…and stood hands higher than Seabisquit. On paper, it was no contest. Head-to-head, it was a different story.

The inexperienced U.S. college hockey players stood not a chance against the Russian monsters that won several Olympic Championships - with the same team -- and steamrolled everybody. To a man, they were bigger, faster, better, stronger, and more experienced. They'd've beaten NHL teams.

Came the game, they were out-played.

Jim Ryun was the U.S. premier miler - shattered the world record and was unbeaten. Marty Liquori was a tough competitive miler, but had nowhere near the credentials of Ryun or the gazelle stride. No odds-maker gave him a shot in their match race.

Liquori ground Ryun down in the last 100 yards, when they were matching strides. He out-gutted him at the finish line.

So, form sheets go out the window when two guys square off. It's who wants it more.

Nobody ever wanted it more than Rocky Marciano.

I agree and out of every champion, I think none showed as much heart nor dedication as Rocky did. But this is like asking Jimmy wilde to go up against Vernon forrest, at some point you have to draw a line.