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Should AJ retire immediately?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • No - He should fight the rematch and if he loses then retire.

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • No - He shouldn't fight Usyk again and continue against other lower level fighters.

    Votes: 5 35.7%
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After his loss to Ruiz there were alot of people saying Joshua needs to make changes.

So what did AJ do, instead of adding an elite coach to his team with a proven track record and a solid resume.

He added two unproven guys to his team.

The first guy is Angel Hernandez whose only accomplishment was being a hanger on and junior trainer at Pedro Diazs gym in Miami.

Commonsense should have dictated that he bring Pedro Diaz himself.

His second addition is a guy called Joby Clayton who just offers theories from the New Age Movement that you can find in the self-help section of a book store. He come across like one of those psychics and mediums and Tarot card readers.

Here is an article on this Joby guy.


AJ is not the smartest tool in the box, and he has alot of charlatans in his gym. Chasing a paycheck and boosting his ego. He has I heard Eddie Hearn mention a combined team of 22 people from Sports Psychologists, to Massage therapists, to strength coaches to Physiotherapists. Talk about having too many cooks in the kitchen.

That life and death fight with Klitchsko made him more cautious in the ring. Made more reluctant to get into a war.

The loss to Ruiz completely extinguished that killer instinct. If he does not have confidence in Robert Mccracken then go and get an elite coach. Instead of bringing in mediocre additions. Robert Mcracken even though he has taken AJ as far he can has probably forgotten more about boxing then the likes of Angel Hernandez and Joby Clayton are ever going to learn. ..I dont see what benefit they are bringing.
 

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Yeh Fury won first but that doesn't automatically make it better and anyone who has seen the two fights can see how much better WK looked against AJ.

Premature? He had flattened twice in that round already? You Fury fanboys really are deluded.

The fact that he hasn't fought Fury or Wilder has nothing to do with AJ, it's the others who have dodged or asked for unreasonable terms. EH worked his arse of to get the Saudi fight done with no help from Fury's camp and then Arum screwed it up on the arbitration. You may think AJ is a shit fighter and thats a matter of opinion but there is no evidence to suggest he has dodged anyone and lots of evidence to prove he has tried to make those fights.

If he was a coward he would have dropped the belt and not fought Usyk!
Yeh Fury won first but that doesn't automatically make it better and anyone who has seen the two fights can see how much better WK looked against AJ.

Premature? He had flattened twice in that round already? You Fury fanboys really are deluded.

The fact that he hasn't fought Fury or Wilder has nothing to do with AJ, it's the others who have dodged or asked for unreasonable terms. EH worked his arse of to get the Saudi fight done with no help from Fury's camp and then Arum screwed it up on the arbitration. You may think AJ is a shit fighter and thats a matter of opinion but there is no evidence to suggest he has dodged anyone and lots of evidence to prove he has tried to make those fights.

If he was a coward he would have dropped the belt and not fought Usyk!
Yes, it does make it better. It's not even a debate. Ending a champions reign on away turf is better than beating the now previous champion 18 months later on home turf. Did WK look better because AJ is simply not as good as TF?

Yes, it was a poor stoppage. If it was a journeyman out of his depth, fair enough. WK deserved better than that.

Never have I called AJ a coward. The fact that he hasn't faced Fury or Wilder has absolutely everything to do with him though. He's the face of HW boxing. He calls the shots. If he has to take less of the purse to get them in the ring, then do it. Otherwise, he needs to stop waffling on about legacy.

You're quick to call everyone a fanboy/hater but you can't the see how ridiculous you come across.
 

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No, he only has 2 losses. Hell, even Ali had what, 5-6 losses. The great Roberto Duran had several, mostly at the end of his career when he was fighting well above his ideal weight and really far too old to be climbing between the ropes.

A.J. just needs to fight up to his potential. He didn't do that against Usyk and let the smaller man dictate the style and pace of the fight instead of using his size to dominate his opponent much like Fury did against Wilder.

He's the bigger man, longer reach, harder puncher, good gas tank, but he plodded around the ring mostly flat footed while Usyk was up on his toes using good footwork and quick combinations and counterpunches to dominate.
 

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After his loss to Ruiz there were alot of people saying Joshua needs to make changes.

So what did AJ do, instead of adding an elite coach to his team with a proven track record and a solid resume.

He added two unproven guys to his team.

The first guy is Angel Hernandez whose only accomplishment was being a hanger on and junior trainer at Pedro Diazs gym in Miami.

Commonsense should have dictated that he bring Pedro Diaz himself.

His second addition is a guy called Joby Clayton who just offers theories from the New Age Movement that you can find in the self-help section of a book store. He come across like one of those psychics and mediums and Tarot card readers.

Here is an article on this Joby guy.


AJ is not the smartest tool in the box, and he has alot of charlatans in his gym. Chasing a paycheck and boosting his ego. He has I heard Eddie Hearn mention a combined team of 22 people from Sports Psychologists, to Massage therapists, to strength coaches to Physiotherapists. Talk about having too many cooks in the kitchen.

That life and death fight with Klitchsko made him more cautious in the ring. Made more reluctant to get into a war.

The loss to Ruiz completely extinguished that killer instinct. If he does not have confidence in Robert Mccracken then go and get an elite coach. Instead of bringing in mediocre additions. Robert Mcracken even though he has taken AJ as far he can has probably forgotten more about boxing then the likes of Angel Hernandez and Joby Clayton are ever going to learn. ..I dont see what benefit they are bringing.
He needs to sack all them 22 leeches and hire Stacey Mckinley and go live in the 1 bedroom unit above his gym and mop the floors every night.

Get out of Hollywood.
 

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He needs to sack all them 22 leeches and hire Stacey Mckinley and go live in the 1 bedroom unit above his gym and mop the floors every night.

Get out of Hollywood.
Stacy Mcckinley the very definition of a hanger on.

He needs to sack all them 22 leeches and hire Stacey Mckinley and go live in the 1 bedroom unit above his gym and mop the floors every night.

Get out of Hollywood.
Stacy Mcckinley whose main qualification for being a boxing coach was having Don King as a friend. Managed to hustle a gig with Mike Tyson for a while.

And has no real time success to speak off.

Not much sense to replace his entire team with a Mckinley.

If you are going to make an addition to the team and have the money to hire the best then go hire a proper elite coach. Who have decades of world class coaching experience and results to back it up.

Of the top of my head... Amongst the elite guys are. Freddie Roach, Ronnie Shields, Joe Goosen, Buddy Mcgirt, John David Jackson, etc.

The really old coaches age wise still occasionaly working as consultants. Jesse Reid, Don Turner, Al Mitchell, Pat Burns.
 

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If you are going to make an addition to the team and have the money to hire the best then go hire a proper elite coach. Who have decades of world class coaching experience and results to back it up.

Of the top of my head... Amongst the elite guys are. Freddie Roach, Ronnie Shields, Joe Goosen, Buddy Mcgirt, John David Jackson, etc.

The really old coaches age wise still occasionaly working as consultants. Jesse Reid, Don Turner, Al Mitchell, Pat Burns.
Good list.

Also: Eddie Reynoso, Joel Diaz, Joseph Gallagher, Nacho B, Pedro Diaz, Virgil Hunter, Egis Klimas. Maybe Manny Robles.

An interesting question, though:
While most top trainers are good at both offense and defense, many are known more for one than the other. If you were AJ, which area would you most want to improve in? Which general improvement would serve him better right now?
 

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Good list.

Also: Eddie Reynoso, Joel Diaz, Joseph Gallagher, Nacho B, Pedro Diaz, Virgil Hunter, Egis Klimas. Maybe Manny Robles.

An interesting question, though:
While most top trainers are good at both offense and defense, many are known more for one than the other. If you were AJ, which area would you most want to improve in? Which general improvement would serve him better right now?
There is old school training philosophy In boxing. If you focus too much on trying to iron out a fighters weaknesses , he will end up losing his strengths.

Essentially you end up with a fighter who is stylistically confused. He becomes above average on the front foot and above average on the back foot and not great at anything.

Out of the coaches mentioned Freddie Roach does not build fighters from scratch. When ready made fighters turn up at his gym majority of his energy is to focus on the skillset that they are already good at, enhance it and make it elite. Any stylistic addition and changes are slowly introduced. Over a period of time.

As Manny Steward stated "fundamentals of boxing coaching are simple. There are too many new coaches trying to complicate things."

The foundation to everything is balance if the footwork and balance are wrong everything else is wrong.

As for the second part of your question. AJ needs to go back to what got him to the top in the first place. With modest but smooth movement around the ring Solid jab and a right hand with short bursts of explosiveness were he was putting his power shots together in combination.

Presently he does not have confidence in anything he is doing. He brought in some guy called Joby Clayton into his team who has him watching 80's Heavyweights and trying to replicate their skill set. You are not going to replicate them 80's heavyweights even guys like Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, John Tate, Tim Witherspoon learnt their skills from the very best coaches in the business.

Firstly the Heavyweight division and boxing as a whole was stacked with elite coaches during the late 70's early 80's era. Most of them have passed on taking their knowledge with them.

Just looking at the names of the top professional coaches Ray Arcel, Freddie Brown, Angelo Dundee, Eddie Futch, Ritchie Giachetti, Cus D Amato, Bouie Fisher, Slim Jim Robinson, Wesley Mouzon, Jesse Reid, George Benton, Al Certo, Manny Steward, Luther burgess, Joe Goosen, Jimmy O pharrow too many to name.

And whatsmore in that era every neighbour hood had a boxing gym with an old school boxing coach teaching the fundamentals to kids when they arrived at the gym.
 
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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Yes, it does make it better. It's not even a debate. Ending a champions reign on away turf is better than beating the now previous champion 18 months later on home turf. Did WK look better because AJ is simply not as good as TF?

Yes, it was a poor stoppage. If it was a journeyman out of his depth, fair enough. WK deserved better than that.

Never have I called AJ a coward. The fact that he hasn't faced Fury or Wilder has absolutely everything to do with him though. He's the face of HW boxing. He calls the shots. If he has to take less of the purse to get them in the ring, then do it. Otherwise, he needs to stop waffling on about legacy.

You're quick to call everyone a fanboy/hater but you can't the see how ridiculous you come across.
Bullshit, a better win is fighting a better more motivated, better condition fighter. Just because your rediculous Fury fanboy love blinds you that doesn't make it less true.

AJ and EJ have tried to fight Wilder on a least two occasions and have had offers rejected, and EH worked his fingers to the bone on the Saudi fight. If you think the Unified Champion should short sell himself then why shouldn't Wilder or Fury? They have only have held one belt. AJ was the A-side and he deserved the right deal and blaming him because you hate him is stupid.
 

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Bullshit, a better win is fighting a better more motivated, better condition fighter. Just because your rediculous Fury fanboy love blinds you that doesn't make it less true.

AJ and EJ have tried to fight Wilder on a least two occasions and have had offers rejected, and EH worked his fingers to the bone on the Saudi fight. If you think the Unified Champion should short sell himself then why shouldn't Wilder or Fury? They have only have held one belt. AJ was the A-side and he deserved the right deal and blaming him because you hate him is stupid.
I personally rate AJ's win over Klitchsko more then Furys.
 

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Out of the coaches mentioned Freddie Roach does not build fighters from scratch. When ready made fighters turn up at his gym majority of his energy is to focus on the skillset that they are already good at, enhance it and make it elite. Any stylistic addition and changes are slowly introduced. Over a period of time.
I guess that's true. - But one thing Freddy always stressed was how to cut off the ring, how to control your opponent's movement.

That's something AJ could sure use right now, especially against Usyk or Fury.
 

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I guess that's true. - But one thing Freddy always stressed was how to cut off the ring, how to control your opponent's movement.

That's something AJ could sure use right now, especially against Usyk or Fury.
Footwork, balance, movement is what all the experienced veteran professional coaches work on when a fighter turns up at the gym. The footwork and balance going forward in attack mode or in defense.

Wladimir Klitschko says when he first linked up with Manny Steward. He was made to do the same drills over and over again same drills he first learned as a kid. The footwork drills are something the fighters tend to neglect once they have been fighting for a number of years. Recently Nonito Donaire stated that his recent career resurgence was going back and practicing the basics he learnt as a kid.

The legendary British Amateur coach in my home town in Birmingham.
Frank O Sullivan who is now 85 plus years old emphasised footwork and balance so much in his gym that he would not let a kid anywhere near a ring until they had perfected them.
He would say that if the "Footwork and balance are wrong then everything else will be wrong" the timing will be off, punches will fall short, the fighter will leave him self open to counters, whilst missing with his own counters, he will be unable to generate power in his punches, the control of distance, range, use of angles ability to set traps for opponents are all down to footwork and balance... At thats what happened over the weekend the guy with the perfect footwork and balance exposed the one that was lacking.

The irony of ironies is that its in Franks gym where Robert Mccraken himself first learnt to box as an amateur he knows all this so his entire performance from strategy and tactics to work in the corner is baffling.. ( Franks has also trained the Yafai brothers.)

 
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The footwork drills are something the fighters tend to neglect once they have been fighting for a number of years. Recently Nonito Donaire stated that his recent career resurgence was going back and practicing the basics he learnt as a kid.
That's a really good point, and makes me think immediately of Wilder.

As most know, I was a HUGE Wilder believer / supporter for most of his career. I used to laugh when some fans claimed that all he had was a big right hand, because it wasn't true. His footwork was once very good. I'd even say exceptional, for such a tall HW. Watch his fight against DeAndrey Abron. Or Kelvin Price. Or Kelsey Arnold. Watch how he moved forward against MCreary, keeping his right foot behind him and planted. Do you know how hard it is to do that, esp for a big guy? Wilder looked like a ballet dancer. It doesn't matter that McCreary was a big potato sack, that forward movement was beautiful. (Sadly, Wilder was still exposing his chin at that point.) Wlad & Vitali can only DREAM of moving like that.

Sure, they were lower-level opponents, but Wilder's defensive movement was really impressive. (he did occasionally get off balance, but that was rare.)

He also used to throw decent combinations. He even started to develop a good jab at one point.

But that's all gone now. He's become a complete clown in the ring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
That's a really good point, and makes me think immediately of Wilder.

As most know, I was a HUGE Wilder believer / supporter for most of his career. I used to laugh when some fans claimed that all he had was a big right hand, because it wasn't true. His footwork was once very good. I'd even say exceptional, for such a tall HW. Watch his fight against DeAndrey Abron. Or Kelvin Price. Or Kelsey Arnold. Watch how he moved forward against MCreary, keeping his right foot behind him and planted. Do you know how hard it is to do that, esp for a big guy? Wilder looked like a ballet dancer. It doesn't matter that McCreary was a big potato sack, that forward movement was beautiful. (Sadly, Wilder was still exposing his chin at that point.) Wlad & Vitali can only DREAM of moving like that.

Sure, they were lower-level opponents, but Wilder's defensive movement was really impressive. (he did occasionally get off balance, but that was rare.)

He also used to throw decent combinations. He even started to develop a good jab at one point.

But that's all gone now. He's become a complete clown in the ring.
Interesting, does it count to be good when you know your opponent is no threat at all? I'm sure there are many sportsmen who can look good against weak opposition, it's only when they face a proper test that you see whether they can implement their full back of tricks when it counts.
 

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That's a really good point, and makes me think immediately of Wilder.

As most know, I was a HUGE Wilder believer / supporter for most of his career. I used to laugh when some fans claimed that all he had was a big right hand, because it wasn't true. His footwork was once very good. I'd even say exceptional, for such a tall HW. Watch his fight against DeAndrey Abron. Or Kelvin Price. Or Kelsey Arnold. Watch how he moved forward against MCreary, keeping his right foot behind him and planted. Do you know how hard it is to do that, esp for a big guy? Wilder looked like a ballet dancer. It doesn't matter that McCreary was a big potato sack, that forward movement was beautiful. (Sadly, Wilder was still exposing his chin at that point.) Wlad & Vitali can only DREAM of moving like that.

Sure, they were lower-level opponents, but Wilder's defensive movement was really impressive. (he did occasionally get off balance, but that was rare.)

He also used to throw decent combinations. He even started to develop a good jab at one point.

But that's all gone now. He's become a complete clown in the ring.
All I remember from wilders early days are sconiers and that shit show vs the guy who made Ruiz Jr look like a lightweight. Oh and Audley Harrison, poor Audley.
 

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That's a really good point, and makes me think immediately of Wilder.

As most know, I was a HUGE Wilder believer / supporter for most of his career. I used to laugh when some fans claimed that all he had was a big right hand, because it wasn't true. His footwork was once very good. I'd even say exceptional, for such a tall HW. Watch his fight against DeAndrey Abron. Or Kelvin Price. Or Kelsey Arnold. Watch how he moved forward against MCreary, keeping his right foot behind him and planted. Do you know how hard it is to do that, esp for a big guy? Wilder looked like a ballet dancer. It doesn't matter that McCreary was a big potato sack, that forward movement was beautiful. (Sadly, Wilder was still exposing his chin at that point.) Wlad & Vitali can only DREAM of moving like that.

Sure, they were lower-level opponents, but Wilder's defensive movement was really impressive. (he did occasionally get off balance, but that was rare.)

He also used to throw decent combinations. He even started to develop a good jab at one point.

But that's all gone now. He's become a complete clown in the ring.
I just went back and watched the Kelvin Price fight. I would'nt say Wilder was a ballet dancer by any means.

But his footwork and balance was better back then in comparison to his recent fights. In his rematch with Fury he was consistently making the novice school boy error of moving his front foot first when going backwards. You always are supposed to move the backfoot the anchor foot first and the lead foot follows that way you are always balanced. And position to throw back with perfect trajectory.

Conversely Tyson Fury's footwork before he hooked up with his uncle Peter Fury was totally atrocious. In the earlier part of his career always of balance.

For a big guy practicing the foot work drills is alot more awkward and causes muscles to feel sore. Not to mention they are boring. Deontay wilder over the last few years stopped doing running as well so he was neglecting lower body completely.

Wladimir Klitchsko also did'nt do roadwork in the latter parts of his career. But what he did instead was do footwork drills in a heavily padded ring. 12 rounds in the morning 12 in the evening. The heavy padding of the ring designed to simulate running in the sand essentially. To develop greater strength on the muscles in the legs.
 

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I just went back and watched the Kelvin Price fight. I would'nt say Wilder was a ballet dancer by any means.

But his footwork and balance was better back then in comparison to his recent fights. In his rematch with Fury he was consistently making the novice school boy error of moving his front foot first when going backwards. You always are supposed to move the backfoot the anchor foot first and the lead foot follows that way you are always balanced. And position to throw back with perfect trajectory.

Conversely Tyson Fury's footwork before he hooked up with his uncle Peter Fury was totally atrocious. In the earlier part of his career always of balance.

For a big guy practicing the foot work drills is alot more awkward and causes muscles to feel sore. Not to mention they are boring. Deontay wilder over the last few years stopped doing running as well so he was neglecting lower body completely.

Wladimir Klitchsko also did'nt do roadwork in the latter parts of his career. But what he did instead was do footwork drills in a heavily padded ring. 12 rounds in the morning 12 in the evening. The heavy padding of the ring designed to simulate running in the sand essentially. To develop greater strength on the muscles in the legs.
The 6'9" 280lb rampaging giant running up on him prolly had something to do with his footwork falling apart, maybe.
 

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In the immediate aftermath Eddie Hearn in the interviews was trying to fake a broken eye socket excuse. And talking about AJ needing to get to hospital.

So respect to AJ for refusing to go to hospital or faking a broken eye socket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
In the immediate aftermath Eddie Hearn in the interviews was trying to fake a broken eye socket excuse. And talking about AJ needing to get to hospital.

So respect to AJ for refusing to go to hospital or faking a broken eye socket.
In the Interviews I saw with EH, he only suggested it as a possibility not trying fake anything...
 
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