He was 8-4 against a green Hopkins, I think a handfull of middlweights could have beat him
SRR vs Roy Jones Jr.
These two cats have probably had threads comparing them in head to head battle, but I was wondering...
Roy Jones, years before he became the dick-showing joke he is now would either flat out destroy his opponents or dominate every single round winning many title fight decisions with 120 points (10 point must system, 12 rounds) from all 3 judges. It seemed SRR had quite a nice winning streak going before and after is loss to Lamotta, but his fights were fights, some titanic struggles including some contested decisions and soul searching victories. Where as Roy's were basically a walk in the park where he could clown around and still beat a top ranked challanger or champion as easy as if he was beating up a little kid.
Prime Roy> Prime SRR
Roy Jones, years before he became the dick-showing joke he is now would either flat out destroy his opponents or dominate every single round winning many title fight decisions with 120 points (10 point must system, 12 rounds) from all 3 judges. It seemed SRR had quite a nice winning streak going before and after is loss to Lamotta, but his fights were fights, some titanic struggles including some contested decisions and soul searching victories. Where as Roy's were basically a walk in the park where he could clown around and still beat a top ranked challanger or champion as easy as if he was beating up a little kid.
Prime Roy> Prime SRR
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
More like 9-3 or 10-2 with a broke hand. Hopkins was 28 and looked pretty sharp in his prior and subsequent bouts. He could fight 3 mins a round back then, throwing 90 punches a round, quicker too.He was 8-4 against a green Hopkins, I think a handfull of middlweights could have beat him
All im saying is Jones gets overrated sometimes, most of the time his opposition wasn't very goodMore like 9-3 or 10-2 with a broke hand. Hopkins was 28 and looked pretty sharp in his prior and subsequent bouts. He could fight 3 mins a round back then, throwing 90 punches a round, quicker too.
Let me state it like this: could Jones win? yes, could Robinson win? yes
Personally I think Robinson would win this one
Tough one due to time differences and changes in the game. Robinson fought a ridiculously higher caliber of opponents than Roy and still dominated most, he had a solid chin, fast hards, KO power in both, amazing footwork, very good boxing brain, could fight at any range - I think he may just be too skilled all round for Roy. I wouldn't write Roy off though as he was amazing in his peak, very fast and could land shots from nowhere.
If were fighting in the 50s then Roy gets KO'd, if its in the 90s/00s then Roy can maybe win a decision.
If were fighting in the 50s then Roy gets KO'd, if its in the 90s/00s then Roy can maybe win a decision.
was that not the Toney fight where he had a damaged hand?More like 9-3 or 10-2 with a broke hand. Hopkins was 28 and looked pretty sharp in his prior and subsequent bouts. He could fight 3 mins a round back then, throwing 90 punches a round, quicker too.
roy jones is one of the most overrated guys on every forum,certain clown was picking him over floyd patterson lamo, patterson woulod ko him with the dick
He get's underrated based on backlash of how easily he won. You don't think he had good opposition because he beat them easily but I'd argue his opposition is on par with Robinson's. He beat 20 or so world champions and countless top 10 opponents. Hill was a champion for 7 years, McCallum was a champion for 10-12 years, Tarver was the next champ after him, Ruiz was 1 of the best HWs, Harding beat a prime Tarver, Reggie J was a 2 weight champ, Malinga beat Benn twice and fought Eubank to a stand still, Gonzalez beat Dariusz.All im saying is Jones gets overrated sometimes, most of the time his opposition wasn't very good
Let me state it like this: could Jones win? yes, could Robinson win? yes
Personally I think Robinson would win this one
Toney and Hopkins are better than any of Robinson's opposition for me. Gavilan was Robinson's best win, but I'd rate it below those 2. Then you have Basilio again I rate bim below those. Then you have Turpin, Fullmer Lamotta all very good middleweight but I don't think any are great boxers. Lamotta is massively overrated based on picking on smaller men and getting the benefit of the doubt in close calls which should probably have gone the other way. Plus the Robinson fights were great. With Lamotta ofcourse Robinson handled him when being much smaller so that's a great win in that sense, it's sort of like Jones beating a much bigger Ruiz, the opponent isn't great but the size difference makes it a big challenge.Robinson fought a ridiculously higher caliber of opponents than Roy.
Even with Hopkins and Toney, Robinsons array of opponents far surpasses Jones.He get's underrated based on backlash of how easily he won. You don't think he had good opposition because he beat them easily but I'd argue his opposition is on par with Robinson's. He beat 20 or so world champions and countless top 10 opponents. Hill was a champion for 7 years, McCallum was a champion for 10-12 years, Tarver was the next champ after him, Ruiz was 1 of the best HWs, Harding beat a prime Tarver, Reggie J was a 2 weight champ, Malinga beat Benn twice and fought Eubank to a stand still, Gonzalez beat Dariusz.
Toney and Hopkins are better than any of Robinson's opposition for me. Gavilan was Robinson's best win, but I'd rate it below those 2. Then you have Basilio again I rate bim below those. Then you have Turpin, Fullmer Lamotta all very good middleweight but I don't think any are great boxers. Lamotta is massively overrated based on picking on smaller men and getting the benefit of the doubt in close calls which should probably have gone the other way. Plus the Robinson fights were great. With Lamotta ofcourse Robinson handled him when being much smaller so that's a great win in that sense, it's sort of like Jones beating a much bigger Ruiz, the opponent isn't great but the size difference makes it a big challenge.
La Motta is way better than Ruiz also - LaMotta has wins over Robinson, Cerdan, Williams, Bell, Janiro, Yarosz, Dauthille, Basora and Zivic, a lot of them fights he was heavier (not often more than 5lb) and often outweighed. People make out like he was coming in 3 weights heavier but that wasn't the case. Comparing a guy with that resume to Ruiz is laughable tbh.
Robinson had about 40 fights with ATG/HOFers, Roy had about 4.
Absolutely love the bones of Roy Jones but it's quite clear to me that Robinson was the better fighter. If you're taking technical skills into account it's not close at all.
Roy was so effective though that at his best I would consider him in a discussion of being better than anyone, but I can't come to the conclusion that he was better than Robinson.
Can't be assed making a long post now though sorry, maybe later.
Some good posts in this thread :good
Roy was so effective though that at his best I would consider him in a discussion of being better than anyone, but I can't come to the conclusion that he was better than Robinson.
Can't be assed making a long post now though sorry, maybe later.
Some good posts in this thread :good
Toney and Hopkins were better than anyone Robinson fought above WW. The MWs Robinson met were nothing special. LaMotta is ridiculously overrated.Tough one due to time differences and changes in the game. Robinson fought a ridiculously higher caliber of opponents than Roy and still dominated most, he had a solid chin, fast hards, KO power in both, amazing footwork, very good boxing brain, could fight at any range - I think he may just be too skilled all round for Roy. I wouldn't write Roy off though as he was amazing in his peak, very fast and could land shots from nowhere.
If were fighting in the 50s then Roy gets KO'd, if its in the 90s/00s then Roy can maybe win a decision.
Jones wins this one if it's a day-before weigh in or above MW. The best version of Jones has about 30 lbs on the best version of Robinson. And is quite a bit quicker to boot.
If even smaller fighters such as Pac and PBF had the problems Ray did with as limited a fighter as LaMotta, we'd hear no end of it. Not to mention Turpin. SRR was a tremendous WW, but definitely human at MW.
If even smaller fighters such as Pac and PBF had the problems Ray did with as limited a fighter as LaMotta, we'd hear no end of it. Not to mention Turpin. SRR was a tremendous WW, but definitely human at MW.
I know who Lamotta's beat, Robinson was 145lbs when he beat him and he lost all the other bouts, Williams in theory is a great win but was 177 fight veteran, 34 and past his best with hand injuries and still a close fight, Yarosz past it too but outlanded Lamotta by all accounts.. Zivic was a WW 150lbs and took him to the wire every time, Bell was another WW, Cerdan had an injured shoulder from an illegal throw. Dauthille and was winning before Lamotta came from behind to stop him.Even with Hopkins and Toney, Robinsons array of opponents far surpasses Jones.
La Motta is way better than Ruiz also - LaMotta has wins over Robinson, Cerdan, Williams, Bell, Janiro, Yarosz, Dauthille, Basora and Zivic, a lot of them fights he was heavier (not often more than 5lb) and often outweighed. People make out like he was coming in 3 weights heavier but that wasn't the case. Comparing a guy with that resume to Ruiz is laughable tbh.
Robinson had about 40 fights with ATG/HOFers, Roy had about 4.
Against genuine MWs he didn't do so well, Marshall beat him and said Lamotta wasn't as good as the Murderer's Row fighters, Lamotta said he'd rather fight Zivic than Burley, Villiemain was robbed against him (there was an investigation because of it) and beat him so 2-0 there
That's not the resume and dominance of an ATG middleweight for my money, maybe better than Ruiz, very different styles of fighter.
Robinson's defence isn't very good though, which is a large part of boxing. He got away with it with his handspeed although sometimes he had to come from behind to do so, like Turpin and was it Villiemain? I don't think he can do that against the elite technicians and slicksters especially bigger quicker ones.Absolutely love the bones of Roy Jones but it's quite clear to me that Robinson was the better fighter. If you're taking technical skills into account it's not close at all.
Roy was so effective though that at his best I would consider him in a discussion of being better than anyone, but I can't come to the conclusion that he was better than Robinson.
Can't be assed making a long post now though sorry, maybe later.
Some good posts in this thread :good
I don't know. I saw Jones fight live in 1992 on the Haugen/Mancini undercard in Reno. Yes, it was against Art Serwano, but he was absolutely frightening in speed which equaled power. In those days Jones hit anyone they were knocked out. Overrated? I don't know. Matters what context. If people say he is top 15 ATG yes he is overrated. At the same time, h2h against Robinson? Let's put it this way, seeing Jones destroy Lamotta is very possible. Head to head against Robinson? it wouldn't be a picnic for either. Jones was the real deal. Handspeed almost unequaled.roy jones is one of the most overrated guys on every forum,certain clown was picking him over floyd patterson lamo, patterson woulod ko him with the dick
Let's not forget that Ray dominated Maxim before quitting on his stool after 13. To appreciate this, it might be extremely sensible to take a look at Maxim-Murphy, also consider that Joey held a win over then HW Champion JJW, had never been stopped or decked in eight career bouts against prime JJW and Ezz, and was actually one of the very best heavyweights in the world, until AFTER SRR's 13 round utter domination of him (10-3, 9-3-1, and 7-3-3 on the official cards) sent him on the slide.
No matter how elusive Roy's head is, never forget that Robby was also a superb body puncher, and more than capable of devastating work inside, as the Bobby ***** kinescope documents in both sight and sound. RJJ's not dealing with a 40 year old Bodysnatcher, 5'7.5" Paz or jab and movement dependent Quicksilver here. The Sugarman can do it all, and very definitely over the championship distance. Roy's not beating this guy with speed and athleticism, not somebody who matches his height and reach, with a vastly superior chin and resilience.
No matter how elusive Roy's head is, never forget that Robby was also a superb body puncher, and more than capable of devastating work inside, as the Bobby ***** kinescope documents in both sight and sound. RJJ's not dealing with a 40 year old Bodysnatcher, 5'7.5" Paz or jab and movement dependent Quicksilver here. The Sugarman can do it all, and very definitely over the championship distance. Roy's not beating this guy with speed and athleticism, not somebody who matches his height and reach, with a vastly superior chin and resilience.
Wow, Lamotta ranks way higher than Roy, I mean no disrepect to Jones but to say Lamotta is a overrated fighter is clearly bs to me
Roy takes him out. At some point, they will trade left hooks, and Robinson's durability and toughness will come into play. jones could match Ray for speed. The problem is I think Ray would figure out his defensive flaws and hit him with a very powerful combination. It would come down to Ray's power and his lust for war. He would get Roy in a dog fight, and destroy him.
That's... Questionable. LaMotta was not the best of his era. LaMotta was nowhere near as skilled as Roy, but could possibly beat him prime for prime. It's a different fight stylistically for Ray.Wow, Lamotta ranks way higher than Roy, I mean no disrepect to Jones but to say Lamotta is a overrated fighter is clearly bs to me
This is opinionated. Hopkins, you could say was green and not in his prime yet, and Toney you could say was not at his best. LaMotta was not more skilled than these 2 guys but he was a harder fight for Ray.Toney and Hopkins were better than anyone Robinson fought above WW. The MWs Robinson met were nothing special. LaMotta is ridiculously overrated.
Also.. Guys like Fullmer, Basilio, Graziano, Turpin, were very solid themselves..
Well I think you're trying to simplify his defense a lot by just putting it down it not being very good and getting away with it because of his speed. I think that that description is more fitting of Roy than Robinson. If there was one aspect of Robinson's defense which we can definitely call at the least very good, it would be his ring generalship, mainly his footwork, which was sublime. Look at the first two thirds of the last LaMotta fight, the way he's stepping here and there perfectly just offsets his man completely and keeps him out of position to land clean.Robinson's defence isn't very good though, which is a large part of boxing. He got away with it with his handspeed although sometimes he had to come from behind to do so, like Turpin and was it Villiemain? I don't think he can do that against the elite technicians and slicksters especially bigger quicker ones.
Overall though his defense would be the part of his game which is lacking. Especially when he fought the way he liked to most, which was as an aggressor, he preferred a tear-up as opposed to a chess-match, but he was technically sound at both.
I don't think you're right at all in claiming he couldn't come from behind against elite technicians and slicksters. I don't see him ever having to. It's a stylistic advantage for him to fight opponents like that. His assaults are just too calculated, too great in terms of technical skill, and too much natural attributes just make them ultimately too much for even a great slickster to dance around the ring to a decision victory. The way to beat Robinson was and always will be to prepare to go through hell and push him backwards. I think Hagler is the biggest hypothetical threat to a best version of 160 pound Robinson. When you consider the chin of Jake, the ruggedness of Gene, the double fisted skilful combos of Carmen, and the jab of Randy, then you can clearly, in my opinion, put Hagler forward as the prime candidate for the job.
I thought this thread was about comparing Roy and Robinson as fighters. I didn't take it as we were being asked who would win a fight between the two. If it's the former I clearly have Robinson. If it's the latter, well I'm not saying Roy couldn't get a win over 160 Robinson, not at all. I am saying that it would be due to-
1. Robinson not at his best at the weight
2. Natural size differential
It certainly wouldn't be due to a styles advantage if Roy won, because he isn't at a styles advantage over Robinson.
As for the notion that Robinson might not be able to perform (if that's what you're suggesting, I'm not sure) against top technicians, you only have to look at ten round and a fifteen round decision wins over Kid Gavilan.
To counter the one sided argument you made about Robinson coming from behind against Turpin and Villemain, well, remember when Roy got dropped and knocked out my lots of good punchers when he wasn't in his prime? Robinson was better than all of them added together. I don't think these arguments are substantial because they're too simplified. Roy fights nothing like Turpin or Villemain. Again I'm not sure if you're actually claiming Roy would beat Robinson on the basis of his struggles against those fighters there though, so I may be taking you out of context there, my apologies if so
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Boxing Forums
A forum community dedicated to Boxing fans and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about weigh-ins, matches, rankings, fighting styles, training, live fights, reviews, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Top Contributors this Month
View All
SwollenGoat
217 Replies
steviebruno
94 Replies
Broxi
91 Replies
Recommended Communities
