[dftaylor]

So, I'm watching Berto-Guerrero (great fun fight) and noticing how poor Berto is (relatively speaking) for a former champion.

Berto was built up on a variety of decent journeymen and effectively given a title. His first real test was meant to be Shane Mosley, but the tragedy in Haiti led to that fight being cancelled. He eventually ended up fighting and losing against Victor Ortiz, another largely manufactured fighter. He lost after a good start because really he's a fast handed gunslinger and not a lot else. He makes for fun fights, but not large achievements.

That got me thinking about other Haymon fighters and the two clearest examples for me right now are Danny Garcia and Adrien Broner.

I can imagine Guerrero beating both of those guys. I still don't understand the fuss over Broner, who looks remarkably like Berto to me so far.

Thoughts, feelings?

 

[JamieC]

i agree, with berto i got the feeling they were looking to cash out against mayweather with him. broner is obviously the next mayweather they want to make, but i do rate garcia, i think he's been moved into his position as "the man" at the weight too soon, he got a few decent wins to get himself there, but is he ready for matthysse, guerrero etc? i think he could have done with a few more fights first

 

[Roe]

And Berto reportedly got paid $1.6 million last night. The Al Haymon hype train is a good one to be on.

 

[BoxingAnalyst]

Good thread, I agree totally, Garcia is ducking Matthysse, GBP want him nowhere near Garcia, simply because Danny will be shown up for the average world level fighter he is.

 

[w;dkm ckeqfjq c]

Thurman is also with Haymon.

 

[dftaylor]

And Berto reportedly got paid $1.6 million last night. The Al Haymon hype train is a good one to be on.

Haymon's fighters are, by and large, TV fighters only. Even his star boxer, Mayweather Jr, doesn't sell tickets unless he's fighting a ticket seller like Cotto. So, yes he gets them nice, big licence fees, but none of them are actually "stars" in the sense I would recognise it.

That's why I find people arguing that Broner is a star quite hilarious. The guy is the epitome of a manufactured TV name, with the glossy but insubstantial record to match, and people are jizzing over him.

 

[Indigo Pab]

I never got the fascination some people had with Berto. The Guerrero and Ortiz bouts have shown how one-dimensional he is now though, he's a decent fighter at world level that'll make for some good fights but he's nothing special. He occasionally uses his jab well as long as he's given enough room to use it(which he hasn't in recent fights) and a dangerous right hand, thrown straight and as an uppercut, but even then much like the jab it's only at mid-range a lot of the time. He landed some nice shots up close last night but he kept on squaring up and getting little leverage on them. Add to that his inaccuracy, tendency to telegraph his shots, questionable stamina, never really been a huge believer. That said I don't mind him getting relatively "big" fights, he'll make them fun if nothing else.

Has anyone got a full list of Haymon fighters? Trying to think of some, are all of these dudes linked to him? I'm sure there's a tonne of others(and that some of these are wrong........):

Floyd Mayweather
Berto
Thurman
Chris Arreola
Rico Ramos
Adrien Broner
Gary Russell Jr

I quite like Broner if I'm honest. In a realistic way I'd like to think, I try to take him for what he is which is a young fighter who's steadily improving by the fight against good - but favourable - opponents. I've never really rated DeMarco to a huge degree(people talk about him being #1 in the division, which is up for some debate in itself, but it was by default if anything) so I've not really gotten carried away by that win, it was a very impressive performance though and it's the best anyone has ever looked against him. Hopefully he fights someone a bit less made-to-order next so we can really gauge his progress further.

Russell Jr is impressive but as the consensus in @Bryn's thread was he needs to step it up opposition-wise. Ponce said he'd be up for it.:think

 

[Libertarian]

The amount of money they seem to get is ridiculous really.

Don't get it at all. Who's he caught shagging?

 

[dftaylor]

The amount of money they seem to get is ridiculous really.

Don't get it at all. Who's he caught shagging?

He's the agent for a number of sports stars and performers, including Beyonce, that HBO want to televise in specials or its other sports broadcasting. The theory, certainly the one Thomas Hauser has, is that he's used this as leverage with HBO and others to force his fighters onto the public. In what world does Andre Berto, who's no ticket seller and drives only moderate ratings, get $1.6m to fight a weight-hopping, light-punching guy who can't sell out in his own hometown?

Haymonworld. That's where.

 

[Libertarian]

Bizarre.

I know he took home $1m+ for the fight against that Hernandez fella.

Realistically only Floyd, Pacquiao, Marquez and Cotto are routinely picking up better purses in America.

 

[dftaylor]

Bizarre.

I know he took home $1m+ for the fight against that Hernandez fella.

Realistically only Floyd, Pacquiao, Marquez and Cotto are routinely picking up better purses in America.

But the common factor with three of those guys is that they routinely sell huge tickets to their key demographics. Marquez and Pac in Vegas and Texas, Cotto in New York and Vegas. Floyd brings in the high-rollers, so even if his tickets sales are poor, the money generated in gambling is likely worth it.

But Berto? He's nowhere.

 

[wrimc]

He's the agent for a number of sports stars and performers, including Beyonce, that HBO want to televise in specials or its other sports broadcasting. The theory, certainly the one Thomas Hauser has, is that he's used this as leverage with HBO and others to force his fighters onto the public. In what world does Andre Berto, who's no ticket seller and drives only moderate ratings, get $1.6m to fight a weight-hopping, light-punching guy who can't sell out in his own hometown?

Haymonworld. That's where.

Where has Hauser written about this is there an article? Would like to read it if there is I am fascinated by Al Haymon secretive guy. He is the Anti-Don King in as much that as loud and as publicity driven as a character and personality that King was Haymon is the other the one lurking in the shadows that we know nothing about. They both do a similar job however.

 

[dftaylor]

Where has Hauser written about this is there an article? Would like to read it if there is I am fascinated by Al Haymon secretive guy. He is the Anti-Don King in as much that as loud and as publicity driven as a character and personality that King was Haymon is the other the one lurking in the shadows that we know nothing about. They both do a similar job however.

I'm sure it was Hauser, or it might have been on The Sweet Science. If it's was Hauser, then it'll be on Seconds Out. I'm certain it was his HBO exposé that he wrote maybe two-three years ago. It is interesting stuff.

 

[Roe]

I think this is the article you're talking about - http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/hbo-and-the-state-of-boxing--part-one

This part interested me:

HBO Sports operates within this framework. That said; there's no escaping the fact that the fights shown on HBO during the first ten months of 2010 have been disappointing. The network's subscribers bankroll its fights. More than thirty million subscribers pay HBO well over one billion dollars each year, so the network has total freedom to buy and televise what it wants. Armed with this freedom and the largest budget in boxing, HBO's 2010 offerings to date as part of its premium package have been:

Boxing After Dark: Juan Manuel Lopez vs. Steven Luevano, Yuriorkis Gamboa vs. Rogers Mtagwa, Devon Alexander vs. Juan Urango, Marcos Maidana vs. Victor Cayo, Ali Funeka vs. Joan Guzman, Chris Arreola vs. Tomasz Adamek, Alfredo Angulo vs. Joel Julio, Amir Khan vs. Paulie Malignaggi, Victor Ortiz vs. Nate Campbell, Timothy Bradley vs. Carlos Abregu, Alfredo Angulo vs. Joachim Alcine, Devon Alexander vs. Andres Kotelnik, Tavoris Cloud vs. Glen Johnson, Yuriorkis Gamboa vs. Orlando Salido, and Anthony Peterson vs. Brandon Rios

HBO World Championship Boxing: Kelly Pavlik vs. Sergio Martinez, Lucian Bute vs. Edison Miranda, Andre Berto vs. Carlos Quintana, Celestino Caballero vs. Daud Yordan, Paul Williams vs. Kermit Cintron, Yuri Foreman vs. Miguel Cotto, Vanes Martirosyan vs. Joe Greene and Chad Dawson vs. Jean Pascal.

How many of these twenty-three fights would boxing fans want to see again?

It's certainly a valid question. Wanting to see a rematch doesn't necessarily mean the fight wasn't any good of course, but it's a fair point.

 

[wrimc]

I think this is the article you're talking about - http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/hbo-and-the-state-of-boxing--part-one

This part interested me:

It's certainly a valid question. Wanting to see a rematch doesn't necessarily mean the fight wasn't any good of course, but it's a fair point.

Cheers just had a read myself good little article there is clearly more going on behind the scenes by Haymon one way or the other. I kind of see the Beyonce leverage angle but at the same time im not so sure. I suppose in a way that would be similar to the Matchroom/Sky relationship getting preferential treatment in the boxing side of things because it produces so much of Sky's sporting output.

 

[dftaylor]

Cheers just had a read myself good little article there is clearly more going on behind the scenes by Haymon one way or the other. I kind of see the Beyonce leverage angle but at the same time im not so sure. I suppose in a way that would be similar to the Matchroom/Sky relationship getting preferential treatment in the boxing side of things because it produces so much of Sky's sporting output.

I guess that's Hauser's point. If you've got favoured nations status for one promoter, how can you maintain standards or challenge poor output. Yes, you can shoot the contract at the end, but it's damaging your reputation all the while.

 

[ScouseLeader]

To be fair I think everyone knew the score with Berto. I don't think he was ever really rated by the knowledgeable fans.

 

[dftaylor]

To be fair I think everyone knew the score with Berto. I don't think he was ever really rated by the knowledgeable fans.

No, that's true. But it doesn't stop him getting a lot of coverage. The two times he's stepped up to even fringe-world class guys he's lost convincingly.

 

[Libertarian]

I suppose the difference is that Fast Eddie wouldn't be able to put his number 5 or 6 fighter (like Berto is with Haymon) in with a complete turd and get him in the region of £600-700k.

Considering the leverage that they have, supplying the darts and snooker coverage....

It's ridiculous how they allow themselves to be controlled. It's one thing Floyd or Pac saying ''I want a bigger split'' and getting it, completely another when you're at the level Berto is.

 

[wrimc]

I suppose the difference is that Fast Eddie wouldn't be able to put his number 5 or 6 fighter (like Berto is with Haymon) in with a complete turd and get him in the region of £600-700k.

Considering the leverage that they have, supplying the darts and snooker coverage....

It's ridiculous how they allow themselves to be controlled. It's one thing Floyd or Pac saying ''I want a bigger split'' and getting it, completely another when you're at the level Berto is.

Thats why you have to think there must be something more. HBO one of the biggest networks is essentially being held ransom by one man in terms of boxing coverage. What are they scared of?