[Leeroy]

I think this mythical creature needs his own thread. Possibly the best fighter of all time based on record. We just don't know based on lack of film. From all accounts he was tough, durable with blazing speed of hand and foot. My personal favorite old timer.

 

[Luf]

Here's my two cents on him:

P4P top 3 due to possessing the world's best resume.

his prime years ran from 1918-1925 by my estimation and in this time he fought the following:

HW - Miske, Smith, Moha, Brennan (x4), Meehan (x2), J Smith, Renault (x2), Weinert, H Smith,

LHW - Levinsky (x3), Dillon, Tunney, Miske, Houck (x2), T Gibbons (x2), M Gibbons, Loughran (x3), Flowers, Rosenbloom, - Tunney (Dx2)*, Loughran (Dx2)*, Z Kid (D) - Gibbons (L), Tunney (Lx2) .

MW: - Dillon, Walker, Slattery, Chip (x2), Moha, Wilson (x2), Brennan (x3), McCoy, J Smith (x2), Downey, Moore, - Flowers (D)* - Flowers (L) O'Dowd (L)


and many more that I could list. the fights with an * are because reports indicate the official decision was controversial.

In my opinion he spent a total of 97 months as the best fighter in a given division (61 months over 2 stints at LHW and 38 over 1 stint at MW)

At LHW whilst on top he faced 17 opponents that I deem to be noteworthy.

At MW whilst on top he faced 5 opponents that I deem to be noteworthy.

That's a total of 22 opponents faced whilst defending his claim as the premiere fighter in a given division.

For a few months he simultaneously ruled the MW and LHW division and during his prime he defeated every man he faced.

Also, for what it's worth, he's the one notable white HW contender that Jack Dempsey didn't face during his career.

A truly legendary fighter and it's a crying shame that we don't have footage of him at his best.

 

[O59]

Greb's resume is a who's who of middleweights, light heavyweights and heavyweights of that era. He truly is an amazing guy, to have faced and beaten such a roster of legendary opponents and for many bouts he was blind in one eye. He delivered the great Gene Tunney his one and only loss and based on accounts of the fight (some by Tunney himself) it was an almighty ass kicking.

One my favorites of the era.

 

[hhascup]

Harry Greb best Wins
Gene Tunney (1) – Hall of Famer – World Heavyweight Champion – Beat Dempsey twice
Tommy Loughran (4) – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jimmy Slattery (1) – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Maxie Rosenbloom (1) – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jack Dillon (2) – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Battling Levinsky (6) – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Mickey Walker (1) – Hall of Famer – World Welterweight & Middleweight Champion
Billy Miske (2) – Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tommy Gibbons (2) – Hall of Famer – Went 15 rounds with Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Mike Gibbons (1) – Hall of Famer – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tiger Flowers (1) – Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
Kid Norfolk (1) – Hall of Famer
Leo Houck (3) - Hall of Famer
Mike McTigue (2) – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Al McCoy (2) – World Middleweight Champion
George Chip (2) – World Middleweight Champion
Johnny Wilson (3) – World Middleweight Champion
Eddie McGoorty (1) – Claimed World Middleweight Champion
Willie Meehan (2) – Beat Dempsey twice
Gunboat Smith (2) – Top Heavyweight
Bill Brennan (4) – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Augie Ratner – (2) - Defeated four world champions in his career

Jack Blackburn – (1) – Hall of Famer as a trainer
Young Ahearn
Jeff Smith
Soldier Bartfield
Tommy Robson
Bartley Madden
Tommy Robson
Joe Borrell
Bob Moha
Chuck Wiggins
Jack Renault
Charley Weinert
Billy Shade
Homer Smith
Lou Bogash
Bryan Downey
Jackie Clark
Jimmy Delaney
Jack Reddick
Roland Todd
Allentown Joe Gans

 

[hhascup]

Here's another way to look at it.

Harry Greb best Wins
Young Ahearn 69-14-12
Al McCoy 69-33-30 – World Middleweight Champion
Jeff Smith 28-13-1
George Chip 62-20-8 – World Middleweight Champion
Jack Dillon 166-14-24 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Battling Levinsky 136-29-26 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jeff Smith 30-14-1
George Chip 65-23-9 – World Middleweight Champion
Willie Meehan 65-12-33 – Beat Dempsey twice
Augie Ratner 34-3-3
Jack Dillon 168-19-26 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Mike McTigue 44-16-3 – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Al McCoy 70-38-31 – World Middleweight Champion
Soldier Bartfield 96-20-19
Gunboat Smith 75-30-9 – Top Heavyweight
Soldier Bartfield 96-21-19
Soldier Bartfield 97-22-19
Eddie McGoorty 77-13-15 – Claimed World Middleweight Champion
Battling Levinsky 143-32-3 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Billy Miske 43-9-10 – Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Leo Houck 109-23-18 – Hall of Famer
Soldier Bartfield 99-24-22
Tommy Robson 41-14-6
Bill Brennan 40-8-5 – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Battling Levinsky 146-34-30 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Leo Houck 113-24-18 – Hall of Famer
Bill Brennan 40-9-5 – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Billy Miske 48-11-10 – Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Leo Houck 116-26-18 – Hall of Famer
Battling Levinsky 147-35-30 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Willie Meehan 73-16-35 – Beat Dempsey twice
Bartley Madden 20-9-4
Tommy Robson 43-17-6
Joe Borrell 50-25-10
Mike Gibbons 87-3-9 – Hall of Famer
Bill Brennan 40-11-6 – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Battling Levinsky 148-37-31 – Hall of Famer – World Champion
Bill Brennan 40-12-6 – Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Jeff Smith 41-19-1
Battling Levinsky 151-38-31 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Mike McTigue 51-19-5 – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Tommy Robson 49-20-7
Bob Moha 39-18-9
Tommy Gibbons 49-0-3 – Hall of Famer – Went 15 rounds with Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Bob Moha 39-19-9
Chuck Wiggins 23-5-3
Gunboat Smith 81-41-14
Bartley Madden 25-14-5
Bob Moha 40-20-9
Jeff Smith 57-21-2
Jeff Smith 57-22-2
Jack Renault 15-1-2
Bartley Madden 26-17-5
Kid Norfolk 59-7-1 – Hall of Famer
Chuck Wiggins 31-12-6
Charley Weinert 53-12-3
Billy Shade 38-9-18
Homer Smith 38-11-4
Chuck Wiggins 35-14-6
Jeff Smith 65-25-3
Tommy Gibbons 75-1-3 – Hall of Famer – Went 15 rounds with Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Gene Tunney 48-0-2 – Hall of Famer – World Heavyweight Champion – Beat Dempsey twice
Tommy Loughran 25-1-3 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Tommy Loughran 27-3-3 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Tommy Loughran 27-4-3 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Johnny Wilson 70-16-4 – World Middleweight Champion
Lou Bogash 75-9-15
Chuck Wiggins 44-25-9
Bryan Downey 74-26-16
Tommy Loughran 33-7-4 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Johnny Wilson 73-17-4 – World Middleweight Champion
Jackie Clark 112-53-38
Jimmy Slattery 48-1-0 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jimmy Delaney 40-5-5
Augie Ratner 60-23-9 - Defeated four world champions in his career
Jimmy Delaney 40-7-5
Johnny Wilson 75-21-4 – World Middleweight Champion
Jack Reddick 25-5-3
Mickey Walker 49-9-1 – Hall of Famer – World Welterweight & Middleweight Champion
Maxie Rosenbloom 32-3-5 – Hall of Famer – World Light Heavyweight Champion
Roland Todd 60-11-3
Jimmy Delaney 46-10-6
Allentown Joe Gans 30-11-9

 

[Luf]

Harry Greb best Wins
Gene Tunney (1) - Hall of Famer - World Heavyweight Champion - Beat Dempsey twice
Tommy Loughran (4) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jimmy Slattery (1) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Maxie Rosenbloom (1) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jack Dillon (2) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Battling Levinsky (6) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Mickey Walker (1) - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight & Middleweight Champion
Billy Miske (2) - Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tommy Gibbons (2) - Hall of Famer - Went 15 rounds with Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Mike Gibbons (1) - Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tiger Flowers (1) - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
Kid Norfolk (1) - Hall of Famer
Leo Houck (3) - Hall of Famer
Mike McTigue (2) - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Al McCoy (2) - World Middleweight Champion
George Chip (2) - World Middleweight Champion
Johnny Wilson (3) - World Middleweight Champion
Eddie McGoorty (1) - Claimed World Middleweight Champion
Willie Meehan (2) - Beat Dempsey twice
Gunboat Smith (2) - Top Heavyweight
Bill Brennan (4) - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Augie Ratner - (2) - Defeated four world champions in his career

Jack Blackburn - (1) - Hall of Famer as a trainer
Young Ahearn
Jeff Smith
Soldier Bartfield
Tommy Robson
Bartley Madden
Tommy Robson
Joe Borrell
Bob Moha
Chuck Wiggins
Jack Renault
Charley Weinert
Billy Shade
Homer Smith
Lou Bogash
Bryan Downey
Jackie Clark
Jimmy Delaney
Jack Reddick
Roland Todd
Allentown Joe Gans

excellent work as always Henry. I tend to stop when I get to the best 10 and with Harry that leaves out an awful lot of guys!

 

[O59]

Harry Greb best Wins
Gene Tunney (1) - Hall of Famer - World Heavyweight Champion - Beat Dempsey twice
Tommy Loughran (4) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jimmy Slattery (1) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Maxie Rosenbloom (1) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Jack Dillon (2) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Battling Levinsky (6) - Hall of Famer - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Mickey Walker (1) - Hall of Famer - World Welterweight & Middleweight Champion
Billy Miske (2) - Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tommy Gibbons (2) - Hall of Famer - Went 15 rounds with Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Mike Gibbons (1) - Hall of Famer - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Tiger Flowers (1) - Hall of Famer - World Middleweight Champion
Kid Norfolk (1) - Hall of Famer
Leo Houck (3) - Hall of Famer
Mike McTigue (2) - World Light Heavyweight Champion
Al McCoy (2) - World Middleweight Champion
George Chip (2) - World Middleweight Champion
Johnny Wilson (3) - World Middleweight Champion
Eddie McGoorty (1) - Claimed World Middleweight Champion
Willie Meehan (2) - Beat Dempsey twice
Gunboat Smith (2) - Top Heavyweight
Bill Brennan (4) - Fought Dempsey for Heavyweight Title
Augie Ratner - (2) - Defeated four world champions in his career

Jack Blackburn - (1) - Hall of Famer as a trainer
Young Ahearn
Jeff Smith
Soldier Bartfield
Tommy Robson
Bartley Madden
Tommy Robson
Joe Borrell
Bob Moha
Chuck Wiggins
Jack Renault
Charley Weinert
Billy Shade
Homer Smith
Lou Bogash
Bryan Downey
Jackie Clark
Jimmy Delaney
Jack Reddick
Roland Todd
Allentown Joe Gans

Holy shit, that's an incredible list of names. Chip, Levinsky, Dillon, McCoy, Ahearn, McTigue, Bartfield, Smith, Miske, Brennan, etc. Are all there, among other greats.

 

[Boogle McDougal]

Awhile back I fell down a rabbit hole in researching Greb. I came across a series of articles in The Pittsburgh Press attributed to Greb himself in the wake of his defeat of Tommy Gibbons. It's fascinating to read the words attributed directly to him in light of all that's been written about him since. Enjoy:

Greb Did Not Let Gibbons Get Set
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6239,770243&dq=harry+greb&hl=en

Gibbons Outgamed, Claims Harry Greb
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Yh8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3820,2457960

Size Not Only Asset For Champion
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Yx8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4252,2746168

Harry Greb Comments On Tunney And Wilson
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3943,3062466&dq=harry+greb&hl=en

Greb Believes He Could Outbox Dempsey
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZR8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3754,3434473

 

[Luf]

Fuck it I'm saying it now, I think he'd have beaten Dempsey on points.

Jack was a giant killer but didn't look as impressive against those his own size. Greb at 175 is giving away only a stone to Jack and I think someone as skilled as him could afford that disadvantage. Jack wouldn't knock Greb out and by all reports Greb was quicker in both hands and feet.

Greb UD Dempsey to be considered the GOAT.

 

[Luf]

Awhile back I fell down a rabbit hole in researching Greb. I came across a series of articles in The Pittsburgh Press attributed to Greb himself in the wake of his defeat of Tommy Gibbons. It's fascinating to read the words attributed directly to him in light of all that's been written about him since. Enjoy:

Greb Did Not Let Gibbons Get Set
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6239,770243&dq=harry+greb&hl=en

Gibbons Outgamed, Claims Harry Greb
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Yh8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3820,2457960

Size Not Only Asset For Champion
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Yx8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4252,2746168

Harry Greb Comments On Tunney And Wilson
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3943,3062466&dq=harry+greb&hl=en

Greb Believes He Could Outbox Dempsey
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZR8bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xEkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3754,3434473

awesome find.

 

[Boogle McDougal]

Greb was a very astute observer, as shown in these articles:

Tunney Has Great Chance To Cop Title Says Greb
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=6200,6289921&dq=by+harry+greb&hl=en

Dempsey's Workouts Fail To Impress
Former Middleweight Champ Believes Jack Needs Better Sparring Partners At Once
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=3998,2186168&dq=by+harry+greb&hl=en

Dempsey Assumes Bachelor Role As Wife Departs For Hollywood
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=3940,2111148&dq=by+harry+greb&hl=en

Dempsey Takes A Rest
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=3745,5559421&dq=by+harry+greb&hl=en

...plus an appearance by our old pal Jeffries!

Jack Dempsey's Legs Are All Right Asserts Jefferies
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=3769,1518128&dq=by+harry+greb&hl=en[/QUOTE]

 

[charles bronson]

 

[Leeroy]

Good contributions.

I think it needs to be said also, that Greg didn't duck black fighters like Dempsey. It is possible greb had the highest output and best energy levels in the history of boxing. Of all the information compiled, his stamina is something all have commented on. What I think is amazing, given the longer fights of days past, is that greb would turn it into second gear midway through, and then drop the peddle to the floor during the championship rounds. Read his round by round vs. Walker. Fucking astounding. Imagine the punch stat numbers in some of his fights.

 

[Burt Brooks]

Fuck it I'm saying it now, I think he'd have beaten Dempsey on points.

Jack was a giant killer but didn't look as impressive against those his own size. Greb at 175 is giving away only a stone to Jack and I think someone as skilled as him could afford that disadvantage. Jack wouldn't knock Greb out and by all reports Greb was quicker in both hands and feet.

Greb UD Dempsey to be considered the GOAT.

Harry Greb was a MW by all accounts...Yes when he was facing LHs and HWs, he would usually weigh in at 165-70 or so, but why should he knock himself out
depriving himself when he didn't have to...Remember in 1925, Greb weighed in at 158 pounds and gave a prime Mickey Walker a 15 round drubbing, just one
year before Greb died...Today fighters weigh in a day before the fight, and come into the ring at 10-15 pounds heavier then their weighin...
Every top fighter today enters the ring heavier then the mandatory weighin weight..And Greb at 5ft8",when NECESSARY was a MW, and he didn't have to make MW
when fighting bigger men he came in heavier and still had the speed and strength to beat anyone...One for the ages...

 

[O59]

Fuck it I'm saying it now, I think he'd have beaten Dempsey on points.

Jack was a giant killer but didn't look as impressive against those his own size. Greb at 175 is giving away only a stone to Jack and I think someone as skilled as him could afford that disadvantage. Jack wouldn't knock Greb out and by all reports Greb was quicker in both hands and feet.

Greb UD Dempsey to be considered the GOAT.

If Greb had fought and beaten Dempsey he'd be the GOAT. No question.

 

[Luf]

Harry Greb was a MW by all accounts...Yes when he was facing LHs and HWs, he would usually weigh in at 165-70 or so, but why should he knock himself out
depriving himself when he didn't have to...Remember in 1925, Greb weighed in at 158 pounds and gave a prime Mickey Walker a 15 round drubbing, just one
year before Greb died...Today fighters weigh in a day before the fight, and come into the ring at 10-15 pounds heavier then their weighin...
Every top fighter today enters the ring heavier then the mandatory weighin weight..And Greb at 5ft8",when NECESSARY was a MW, and he didn't have to make MW
when fighting bigger men he came in heavier and still had the speed and strength to beat anyone...One for the ages...

Burt usually I'd agree, but miske and gibbons both got shots, none as big as greb and none as qualified in the hw division.

Miske, Smith, Moha, Brennan (x4), Meehan (x2), J Smith, Renault (x2), Weinert, H Smith,
all hw's who were defeated by greb. dempsey himself wasn't much bigger and greb fancied his chances.

the colour bar i can understand, but this i cannot.

 

[Flea Man]

The greatest. I have little doubt he'd have beaten Dempsey.

 

[O59]

Man, I'd have loved to see Greb vs. Dempsey. A win over Jack would really set Greb's GOATness in stone.
As it is I move Langford, Greb and Robinson about. In the past Sam would be my #1, then Robinson, and at other times Greb. Right now I'd still consider Robinson the GOAT.

 

[Leeroy]

To try and get a visual of his style, from all the interviews of boxers who faced Greb, I picture an unorthodox Robinson. That was another thing that made greb awesome, his unorthodox approach. He was an improviser. Greb was anti technical, the nemesis of Robinson's technical brilliance. Greb also used every punch in the boxing textbooks.

One account from a guy who fought him (Percy ?) said at one time during their fight he stood in the corner, with his hands down and 'you still couldn't hit him'. So he used great head movement on top of ridiculous angles for defense. That also says he had great reflexes. He would also throw a punch and stop it midway in motion and turn it into a different punch. So we know he used feints. The boxing terminology was different back then remember.

This guy is the most versatile fighter ever. Second or even to robinson.

 

[Boogle McDougal]

To try and get a visual of his style, from all the interviews of boxers who faced Greb, I picture an unorthodox Robinson. That was another thing that made greb awesome, his unorthodox approach. He was an improviser. Greb was anti technical, the nemesis of Robinson's technical brilliance. Greb also used every punch in the boxing textbooks.

One account from a guy who fought him (Percy ?) said at one time during their fight he stood in the corner, with his hands down and 'you still couldn't hit him'. So he used great head movement on top of ridiculous angles for defense. That also says he had great reflexes. He would also throw a punch and stop it midway in motion and turn it into a different punch. So we know he used feints. The boxing terminology was different back then remember.

This guy is the most versatile fighter ever. Second or even to robinson.

I think the best fighters to give us an indication of Greb's style would have to be Ken Overlin and to a lesser extent, Joe Calzaghe. Even these are probably a bit of a stretch. Especially the Calzaghe comparison. They both had fast hands, a high work-rate and didn't usually sit on their punches. That's the extent of that.