[Roe]

I think the Puerto Rican surprised everyone last night by showing some great boxing skills and proving that he was more than a worthy challenger. The end was disappointing for all, except Burns' team and fans of course.

Boxers have always got criticism for pulling out of fights, particularly when they're winning. Victor Ortiz and Vitali Klitschko come to mind. But do you think Gonzalez was wrong to quit?

It annoys me when I hear comments about having a "glass heart". For me, Gonzalez was clearly injured - his offence completely vanished after he gave it everything in round 7 - and for him to give up in the biggest fight of his career to date meant it must've been serious. Gonzalez didn't complain, gave Burns his props at the end and forfeited his perhaps only shot at glory. For him to get stick and abuse for that is ridiculously harsh IMO.

Was Gonzalez right to quit? Or does he really deserve criticism for "not having what it takes" to fight on no matter what?

 

[adamcanavan]

If it was just the broken wrist i'd say fight one handed, this is a world title shot and youre winning, the worst he couldve come out with was a draw (with no knockdowns or a stoppage) but i think as well as the broken wrist Ricky's ability to just stay in there took everything out of him and i feel he was gonna getknocked out in the next couple of rounds anyway, so maybe he was rigjt with all of the factors

 

[Earl-Hickey]

Gonzales was giving Burns shit over on the scene saying he was dominating Burns and Burns punches were like feather dusters. After quitting he loses the right to talk any shit.

With regards to should he have quit, I don't know I wasn't in there, one would think he could have tried to run for the last couple rounds, just run and clinch and survive, I mean it's Ricky Burns not Prime Tyson, surely he could try to get through it, but he just didn't fancy it. Weird.

Maybe he thought he wouldn't get a fair shake on the cards anyway?

 

[sim_reiss]

It's a difficult one.

I think it's 100% about circumstances i.e. (a) what's on the line and (b) the long term implications. Ultimately, when an injury becomes a threat to your long term career and well being for limited immediate reward, it's the right thing to pull the man out and live to fight another day. The Ortiz example is an interesting one. The Maidana fight appeared unequivocally a "quit-job", he just didn't want to be in there and take the punishment which is part of the territory. He's been slated for that. However, against Lopez had his jaw broke in about 3 different places. He wasn't defending any title and the main carrot was a good payday against Alvarez. Taking anymore punishment might have done even more damage and certainly if the wrong punch landed his career might have been in jeopardy. His corner in my opinion showed zero compassion and had the Canelo dollars in their sights. I wasn't surprised when he split with his coach after.

In terms of Gonzalez, my gut feeling is that he should have carried on, he had one broken wrist and effectively could get on his bike and win. I've broken a finger and fractured a wrist so with a very small qualification I was certainly surprised he quit. Especially since I've heard fighters refer to the way adrenaline can numb the pain (e.g. Jon Jones' absolutely buggered his toe and didn't even know). To some extent, credit has to go to Burns because obviously Gonzalez must have felt he couldn't get to the end due to (a) the pain and (b) Ricky's resurgence. I think (b) was also important to his reasoning.

My gripe with the whole subject is media/fans who criticize fighters uphold standards that they or no sane person would subscribe to. One example is people rather than claiming Ortiz quit going further calling him yellow belly and coward. Another example is a video jockey masquerading as a "journalist" called Ryan Bivins. Last night he got in an exchange with someone on twitter. Basically Bivins was criticizing Gonzalez for quitting, claimed he himself would fight with two broken hands for a world title with no caveats. When someone calls him on his bullshit he backs it up by he's in fact a "fighter" himself as if having a few amateur fights is qualification enough. He's typical of a brand of sanctimonious blowhard "journalist" like Steve Kim.

 

[Roe]

Well put @sim_reiss. Agree with pretty much all of that :good

 

[Vano-irons]

I would love to say that I would have carried on with a broken wrist in a world title fight, but I just can't say for sure. Everyone is different. I will say that some have carried on with far worse injuries. I would have liked to have seen him suck it up

 

[Chatty]

I'm still skeptical he has an injury - I think he blew himself out in the seventh and then made an excuse for his poor conditioning. Defo glass heart though, he was given his first thing to overcome in the whole fight and decided he didn't want no more. Hell the two rounds Burns won, he still couldn't land anything.

I think he gave up to easily to be honest, he may as well have went on the run and then pull out if Burns started to land rather than presume Burns was going to land and decide not to fight.

 

[Chatty]

I wouldn't call the bloke a coward, he's a pro boxer and has put himself on the line in the first place but the guy screwed up big style imo. He was very skilled as well but no anyone fighting him will just look to take it late then go to the trenches and test his mentality.

 

[dkos]

Boxers are placed on a higher pedestal when it comes to what we perceive to be their threshold for punishment. Every man or woman that steps in that ring is displaying bravery, a willingness to fight through the pain to achieve some form of glory. Us fight fans appreciate that, especially when someone goes beyond the call of duty in search of victory, adulation and, perhaps most importantly to them, respect. From Muhammad Ali to Tim Austin, these men are held in a different light for the infallible heart they had when boxing under the bright lights for our entertainment.

So when someone voluntarily opts out of the battle they are winning, you have to accept there is going to be an adverse reaction. Is it hypocritical for those that have never laced on a pair of gloves to criticise a man for quitting due to an injured wrist? Perhaps, but such an action is taboo in this sport and Gonzalez will be lucky if he can ever remove the stigma that is now attached to him. Vitali Klitschko answered the critics with his war against Lennox Lewis, and Roberto Duran dispelled those questioning his desire after the 'No Más' debacle with many subsequent showings. It remains to be seen, however, if Gonzalez will ever get that opportunity for vindication.

The main problem for me is Gonzalez, as a switch hitter, could have masked the injury and carried on with the right hand. He was comfortably winning with just his jab early on, and he barely got hit in the last two rounds Burns won. This was his big opportunity, his fight for world honours, his chance to make a massive statement in front of a large audience etc. He certainly made a statement, but mainly for all the wrong reasons.

Knowing that this was probably his one and only chance at a 'world' title, and also being aware of how the boxing public would react to him not carrying on, he was certainly wrong to quit.

 

[dftaylor]

He just couldn't keep with the pace of the fight over the coming rounds. He'd put on a great performance but, on the one occasion he hurt Burns, he let rip and couldn't get him out of there. It's the classic Taylor-Pavlik example again. Manny Steward just saying "We're in trouble here".

Gonzalez had hurt his wrist, he was feeling tired, he could see Burns was getting closer and closer, and Gonzalez was having to work harder on his defence to keep clear. With all of that stress and the fact he couldn't really dent Ricky, he just quit. It doesn't make me think less of him, but he lacks that mental strength to grit his teeth and fight on. Typical of many front-runners who like to feel on top.

There's no guarantee that he could have survived the next few rounds. There's no sign that he would have won those rounds even. The tone of the fight had completely changed and he didn't fancy it any more.

 

[Dustaine]

Obviously from our point of view, he was wrong to quit, but we are not in his shoes. We'd like to think we wouldn't have quit if we had been him, but the truth is we are not sure.

 

[BUMPY]

Just watched this. Strange Gonzalez was clearly in control I think he just shot his load, simple as that. But this is boxing you have to prepare for a 12 round fight and if you don't superior skills just won't be enough. I like how Ricky Burns conducted himself in the post fight interview.

 

[anklespanker756]

I don't know if he was wrong to quit as he's free to do whatever... But it showed a lack of heart for sure. 99% of fighters would have carried on. He was leading on the cards by a couple of points when he quit. If he could have jabbed and moved for the remaining rounds one handed i'm sure he would of. But he basically shot his bolt in the 7th & probably knew if he went out again he was going to get stopped. It was an amazing turn around to a fight where Ricky Burns was made to look like a novice at times.

Heres a question.. If Gonzales had continued to box in the 7th rather than trying to take Rickys head off. Would he have made it to the end and got a UD. I think he possibly would have.

 

[Ilesey]

I think it's very easy for us to sit here and say that he should have fought on, or compare his injury to another fighter who did manage to struggle through. I'm not sure as to the extent of his injury, but the only person who knows how bad it was decided to stop fighting. Perhaps he should have given it a go for a round or two to see if he could see the fight through. But he didn't and I'm not really tempted to sling too much critisism. We must also remember that most saw Burns winning fairly comfortably beforehand, so whilst we can question his heart, we should also admire the skill shown.

 

[faz]

Gonzalez was clearly ahead but IMO was fading badly, perhaps to the level that he may have been knocked down in the championship rounds if he hadn't quit - particularly had he only been able to use one hand.

I thought that Burns was very honest post-fight in his analysis of the fight, nice to see him admitting he needed to go back to the drawing board despite getting the win.

As an aside, I thought that the trainers reaction to his fighter pulling out was pretty comical.

 

[JamieC]

Yes he was right to quit if he couldn't carry on. It wasn't the wrist injury (if there was one) that made him quit though, his offence stopped because he was done, he blew himself out, Burns was just starting to connect and he couldn't do anything about it, I couldn't see him lasting another three rounds. I've been dog tired in a 3 round contest and had to push myself through to the finish when the pace was absurdly high, it feels fucking awful when you know you've got nothing left, can't imagine what thats like after 9 rounds with 3 to go against a world class boxer who's just got more in the tank, if he can't go on he can't go on, we aren't in his shoes. It would be different if he was still in control but the momentum had clearly shifted and the writing was on the wall in my opinion.

 

[Michael]

Rematch is needed me thinks, this going to count as black mark against Burns if he doesn't face him again.

Cant knock Gonzalez for quitting, he was always going to let himself in for a lot of criticism by doing it though.

 

[King Horse]

Rematch is needed me thinks, this going to count as black mark against Burns if he doesn't face him again.

No, it won't be.

 

[NoMas]

like @dkos said, gonzalez is a switch hitter, so could of quite easily (given his superb boxing skills) coasted his way to a points win... even if he wasnt a switch hitter he could of found away to get thru it...

im skeptical he even had a broken wrist or hand though, i think he lost his heart and blew himself out...

every fighter, whever its a casual trainer sparing, an amateur or a pro, they all show massive bravery when they step into the ring, but he didnt show a real fighters heart quitting on his stall, especially in a world title fight, and a big career boasting opportunity...

i remember when herbie hide quit on his stole in prizefighter while ago (think he had a injured hand or something) he quit because he thought he a world title shot when he got out i believe, and thought it would damage his chances, thats fair enough... but this was gonzalez big chance, and for me, i dont think he gave it his all, i would of thought hes regretting it now...

either that or it was fixed :eddie

 

[O59]

I, nor anybody else on this board have any idea what Gonzalez was feeling, what the pain was like, etc. Fact is, it was by far the biggest and most important night in his career. He was up against one of the best lightweights in the world, and he was dominating the fight. Any rational scorecard would have had Burns trailing heavily; I had him down seven rounds to zilch going into the eighth, meaning he would have at best lost a 7-5 type decision barring any KD's or a stoppage if I was a judge.

Some speculate that because he was gassed, Burns was coming on heavily, the fight was in Scotland where he may not have received a fair shake, etc. He just said "fuck this" and opted out to avoid getting stopped or robbed. He changed positions multiple times in the fight, seamlessly moving from orthodox to southpaw several times. If I was him, regardless of the pain, I would've fuckin' went out there and at least try to bag a round or something.

He could have gone southpaw and pumped the jab, continue to make Ricky miss, switch and land the right hand, etc. Similar to what Eddie Chambers did against Tomasz Adamek. The left is fucked, so use the right! It was a world championship fight and he bottled it, simple as. He may never get another chance at a title again and the image of him packing it in after some resistance and a wrist injury will be imprinted in many fans minds.

Again, I don't know how much the pain hurt. But it's shit you've got to deal with if you want to win the fight, and the championship belt. I've seen fighters continue on with far more debilitating injuries and win the fight.