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Have you watched the GGG-Alvarez fight yet? How did you score it , if you have seen it?
Which famous fighters maintained lifelong good health, and which didn't?
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Bit of a saga mate. I went back to BT for phone and broadband,took a cheaper package which they said included Boxnation. Have had no problems until last night. Found out as I get BN through BT I would for the first time have to pay for GGG/Canelo. Which I did. Didn't want to miss that but thought the bill was very limited.
To the fight itself. I used to sit and score fights but now I don't as it spoils it somewhat,so I go by general impression . Id got GGG the more dominant fighter,and saw him winning. Not much in it. I don't really see anybody to beat him as the division is not exactly laden with talent,but if somebody comes along who is just that bit special at the weight,I think its only a matter of time before he loses. That guy isn't BJS but might just be Jacobs in a return. Or even possibly Canelo. I still don't rate GGG with Monzon and Hagler. With apologies to our absent friend Mervyn.
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Tbf he was really young when he died so we don't know how he would have been several years down the line. Also There is chance that he violently murdered several women. Looking at Chris benoit for example that might also be the result of brain trauma. Then again with boxers especially its hard to tell because you need a certain liking for violence to get started in this sport anyway so hard to say what the cause and the effect is here.
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Here is the excellence and stylish class of Leroy Caldwell on television shutting out the deadly punching Jeff Shelburg before a very pleased and appreciative Las Vegas audience.
First, for context, here's how dangerous Shelburg could be, especially with his right:
There's ample footage of Shelburg in action. He was no joke, and his power was familiar to early fans of Top Rank Boxing on ESPN. But there was a classy boxer and character we rooted for when he boxed on ESPN, and we rooted for him when he took Shelburg COMPLETELY to school...:
The class and character of the man shines through in his post match interview of over two and a half minutes after completing his shutout win:
Quite a few boxers maintained lifelong good health after their careers ended.. JImmy Wilde, Henry Cooper, Joe Bugner.,Archie Moore , George Foreman, Ray Leonard, Chris Eubank Snr, , Nigel Benn,Lennox,Monzon,both Klitschko"s,Calzaghe,Pastrano,, Sugar Ray Robinson,Holyfield, Hopkins, and Stracey. Just a few from the top of my head, there are many more. Regards Mervyn The Gee
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Sugar Ray Robinson?? Mate it's well known he suffered from serious pugilistic dementia later on in his life. He was not in a good way health-wise before he died. Also Holyfield is slurring quite a bit, though he otherwise seems okay - but who knows how he might be down the line.
Thats true. Being affected seems to be progressive. Dunno whether you remember but Holyfield was in Big Brother quite a few years ago. I was fascinated he was on it but he came across as quite boring and a bit uncomfortable in the company of others. While lesser boxers like David Haye and Joe Bugner thrived on similar programs.
Apart from that their faculties appear still very sharp. But.......in later years who knows??
Then again those of us who have taken much less can suffer from dementia at any time. I know many people who have hardly ever been hit who have to go in care homes.
On the other hand I think sometimes being punch drunk can be explained away as Parkinsons.
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This is a great thread.
You look at legend like Benitez, and the way he fights and you wonder, how can he be punch drunk? While legends like Foreman, Qawi or Chavez Sr. fought in destroyer mode and yet display no long term effects of CTE? Well that's very simple: look up the ages when they started boxing. Benitez was already in the ring under the age of 10! So he's already taking punches to the head as a mere child. Meanwhile, Foreman and Chavez Sr. didn't start boxing until they were 16, and Qawi was already a 28 year-old when he started his boxing career. In addition, all three had limited amateur careers, Foreman won a gold medal with only 24 amateur fights, Chavez had a brief amateur career, Qawi's only "amateur" fights occurred he was in the prison boxing program.
This is why you have Hearns, Leon Spinks, Bowe, Terry Norris, etc. have some form of CTE because of the extensive amateur career, lacing up a pair of boxing gloves before becoming teenagers.
You can get the rare example like Ray Leonard who became a boxer at age 13, had an extensive amateur career, yet appears to avoided CTE, but then again he only had 40 pro fights, and he kept having hiatuses in his 20's.
You look at legend like Benitez, and the way he fights and you wonder, how can he be punch drunk? While legends like Foreman, Qawi or Chavez Sr. fought in destroyer mode and yet display no long term effects of CTE? Well that's very simple: look up the ages when they started boxing. Benitez was already in the ring under the age of 10! So he's already taking punches to the head as a mere child. Meanwhile, Foreman and Chavez Sr. didn't start boxing until they were 16, and Qawi was already a 28 year-old when he started his boxing career. In addition, all three had limited amateur careers, Foreman won a gold medal with only 24 amateur fights, Chavez had a brief amateur career, Qawi's only "amateur" fights occurred he was in the prison boxing program.
This is why you have Hearns, Leon Spinks, Bowe, Terry Norris, etc. have some form of CTE because of the extensive amateur career, lacing up a pair of boxing gloves before becoming teenagers.
You can get the rare example like Ray Leonard who became a boxer at age 13, had an extensive amateur career, yet appears to avoided CTE, but then again he only had 40 pro fights, and he kept having hiatuses in his 20's.
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The good thing for Cooney is that his career wasn't that long and even during his career there were sabbaticals. Also, I'm trying to think, does anyone know if Cooney had any tough fights other than his 3 losses?
The problem is that many mental health issues can be invisible. Many American football players can give lucid and articulate interviews but privately they are battling depression, personality changes, mood swings, addiction, violent tempers, and other mental related illness.
So while slur speech and “slowness” are obvious signs of boxer brain damage, there are a slew of symptoms that we may not see or hear about.
Not to mention indirectly or directly making existing conditions worse
So while slur speech and “slowness” are obvious signs of boxer brain damage, there are a slew of symptoms that we may not see or hear about.
Not to mention indirectly or directly making existing conditions worse
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Carlos Ortiz was famous for keeping himself in shape and continuing to work out in retirement. (Even for his final match against the just dethroned Ken Buchanan, Carlos was in perfect condition, but quit to end his career when it was obvious Ken's vastly superior speed was too much for Ortiz to overcome.)
Now we know. Carlos Ortiz has finally passed at an extremely respectable 85 years of age following a recent stroke. Always one of the great guys to ever emerge from the pugilistic ranks. If you happen to catch some of his guest commentary for other bouts during the early 1960's, enjoy it, as his intelligence and personality shines through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ortiz_(boxer)
Now we know. Carlos Ortiz has finally passed at an extremely respectable 85 years of age following a recent stroke. Always one of the great guys to ever emerge from the pugilistic ranks. If you happen to catch some of his guest commentary for other bouts during the early 1960's, enjoy it, as his intelligence and personality shines through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ortiz_(boxer)
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Larry Holmes has always sounded very sharp in the past but listening to him recently he has fallen away noticeably. He is 72 but that alone isn't a good reason to sound the way he does now.
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One of the saddest things I've witnessed concerning boxing is when I ran into Tony Licata one night when my now ex-wife and I went to a movie theater to catch a flick. I left her in line at the concession stand to hit the bathroom and I ran into Tony in the Men's room. I immediately recognized him from our amateur days sparring him a few times and all the fights I had gone to see him as a pro. This was after he had finally retired.
He had a good career going 60-7-4 in his 11 year career and fought the likes of Carlos Monzon, Tony Chiaverini, Alan Minter, Emile Griffith, etc., etc.
It was very obvious that all his years in the ring had a very negative impact on him with the way he was talking to me, slurring his words and seemingly not following his train of thought. I remember feeling so bad for the guy to still be a young man of only 28 and have this going on in his life. It was even sadder that he passed away at age 56 when most people are just starting to enjoy their approaching senior years.
He had a good career going 60-7-4 in his 11 year career and fought the likes of Carlos Monzon, Tony Chiaverini, Alan Minter, Emile Griffith, etc., etc.
It was very obvious that all his years in the ring had a very negative impact on him with the way he was talking to me, slurring his words and seemingly not following his train of thought. I remember feeling so bad for the guy to still be a young man of only 28 and have this going on in his life. It was even sadder that he passed away at age 56 when most people are just starting to enjoy their approaching senior years.
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Foreman still doing well.
Just saw a interview of him recently. Voice and cognition don't seem much different from 25 years ago and looks about the same physically (clearly less muscle but still looks strong and definitely less fat)
Just saw a interview of him recently. Voice and cognition don't seem much different from 25 years ago and looks about the same physically (clearly less muscle but still looks strong and definitely less fat)
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