[Ar558a]

Anyone who thinks Fury has actually retired hasn't been paying attention these many years.

People who actually have retired would have relinquished their belts...

AJ should retire if he loses, he has enough money and all that is left is smaller fights for less money that are leading no where and more chances to destroy any legacy he has left.
Obviously if he wins the TF fight is the obvious option but I think negotiations will be tough as Fury is likely to want 80/20 or something ridiculous so it might be unmakeable. Otherwise I guess it will be a Mandatory (Joyce or Hrgovic i guess?)

 

[Ar558a]

Why relinquish your belts if you can hold them longer?

If AJ has 'enough money' why is the split against Fury so important? Legacy is about who you beat not the size of your bank balance.

If you are retired you relinquish the belts because you aren't going to defend them. Saying you are "retired" and not relinquishing is just the usual Fury BS.

Well the same could be said of Fury he doesn't need the money either! Also why would you make probably £100m+ for your opponent while you take a pittance, you would have to be pretty weak pyschologically to take that deal.

 

[Ar558a]

Why would he retire boxing is his life and hes prime losing to Usyk twice isnt that bad

People dont fight for legacy they fight for money or because its their life

AJ vs Wilder, AJ vs Whyte II, AJ vs Joyce, AJ vs Dubois still big fights

Once you have £100m+ and have been twice World champion, fighting non title fights are beneath you. If he was an idiot like Mayweather spunking money up the wall and broke all the time it would make sense but AJ is pretty switched on Business wise. I think AJ has enough other things going on to waste time on B league fights. You wouldn't see Messi or Ronaldo in the Championship!

 

[Ar558a]

Fury's psychological ownership of the division is almost total and his announcing he has retired while keeping a hold of the belt is just a further extension of that. Fury is obviously living rent free in your head as well.

No he is just being a dick as he always is and the WBC are too weak to tell him either relinquish it or stop pretending to be retired.

 

[Ar558a]

AJ has a long term deal with DAZN he has to take B level fights or he might end up with back to back losses

AJ vs Whyte/Dubois/Joyce are huge domestic fights and I guarantee you if he loses to Usyk he will take a "B" Level opponent in December, its not an argument its just common sense

We don't know the contractual conditions of the DAZN deal, there could easily be a get out if he loses or AJ may have a "can retire anytime" clause. I still cannot see why he would want to take those B level fights, what about them is going to make him get up at 5am to do the training? Nothing. They would only be "Huge" if they wore world title fights, as low level fights they have little financial value especially if DAZN think they can sell them as PPV which I can't see doing more than 100-200k which would barely cover AJ's fee (and that's assuming DAZN sensibly put a significant reduction to the contract value if he loses).

 

[Ar558a]

I see you are not refuting Fury is living rent free in your head. He so plainly is it would be pointless.

Well only if you think, considering him a contemptable charlatan is but I'm not spending hours a day wanking over the thought of sucking him off like you so I suggest it's you who has the problem.

 

[Ar558a]

Look not further than the mirror to see who has the problem and while you are there attend to your tears.

So you are one of these tiny people who spends all day slagging people you disagree with to get your kicks.... Well have fun, I'm not going to feed your desire anymore.

 

[Ar558a]

I'd agree that it depends on the result, if he's beaten again and wants to continue in the sport, the guy is going to need a string of gimme wins to get his confidence back up there.

If he wins, potential trilogy with Usyk or possibility of tempting Fury into the fight. I wouldn't take that fight with only a few months recovery and training though.

I really couldn't see what the plan would be at that point if he loses? Hope that Fury really retires and relinquishes the WBC belt and hope he can get a chance to fight for it? I presume if that does happen Usyk will want to scoop it up anyway which rules AJ out. There is very little chance that he could fight Usyk a third time without probably beating at least two of Joyce/Dubois/Wilder and even then it would seem like a long shot. Assuming he could make and win those fights that would likely take us into 2024 anyway by which time he'll be 35 and past it. I still have yet to hear a credible plan from anyone that is more sensible that AJ retiring if he loses...

 

[Ar558a]

Do you think anyone here cares that much about AJ's life to make a "credible" plan, its just abit of fun and predictions its not that serious, you need a new hobby

It's a Boxing Forum? Speculating about the future of fighters is half of what happens here...

 

[Ar558a]

If AJ is stupid enough to continue, I don't expect it to last long, he won't be properly motivated and will cut corners to try and pick up the cheque and he'll get caught out and give credence to the complete arseholes who hang around here to claim he shouldn't have ever won a single bout. AJ wouldn't lose to any of the names given in a title fight, he is a way superior fighter to the one who beat Whyte in 2015 and Wilder is a joke propped up by the Fury fanboys but if you don't take it seriously you can and will lose to anyone.

 

[Ar558a]

Who was Joshuas best win in your opinion?

Personally I would say it has to be the WK win, that was the most exciting fight I have ever seen and the first time AJ was properly challenged and he had to show a lot of different skills in that fight to make it through and given WK was the dominant champ of the previous decade and was incredible motivated to regain the title after his limp loss to Fury it definitely stands out for me. I think also the Parker and Ruiz II wins deserve more praise as they showed he could win a different way the the showreel KO's that had led up to that point. I think when the obituary of AJ's career is written those will be the high points. I also think that the Ruiz loss was the turning point as he lost his confidence to move forward knowing he could finish anyone after that point and when he came to Usyk that became crucial as outboxing him was never going to work and he needed that pre Ruiz skill which he lost.

 

[Ar558a]

Sounds like he wants Joshua to go back to easier fights a few times a year before getting in there with Wilder or the likes.

People forget he was a 10-0 prospect fighting the Skeltons, Sprotts and Zumbano's of the world before he took his first Championship fight and that was against a weak belt holder... from that point on he's obligated to fight better contenders.

Eddie Hearn's move to basically give the entire purse to Martin to get the IBF belt was one of the best moves a promoter has pulled for a fighter.

 

[Ar558a]

Joshua's need fight seems to be with his truth. I think the man is gay and he wants to live his truth, but his handlers don't want him to come out. He might lose a few endorsements and some fans, but at lease he will be happy. It will probably make his a better fighter if he doesn't have to hide who he is.

What? Where is this coming from? Are you 12?

 

[Ar558a]

That's true, he's made an unholy amount of money in his career and it's not been a career where he's taken too much damage. It's a strange one though because he's still young, fresh, driven and much more than a handful for almost anybody out there... not everyone has the skillset of Usyk.

Like I said in another post, if we're truthful about AJ's career... he had the typical resume building fights up until the Kevin Johnson fight, in I think his 10th pro bout, he then faced a bunch of green or average guys like Breazeale and Whyte, his best win was going life and death against a ring rusty Wlad who hadn't fought since losing to Fury about a year and a half earlier (basically came out of retirement for that fight), then he fought some of the guys who I consider to be a bit less than the top tier, like Parker and Pulev... then he loses embarrassingly to Ruiz, regains his titles by fighting in the most cautious way possible and then loses immediately twice in pretty clear fashion to a much smaller but much more talented boxer.

I just think he was brought on too early and marketed really well by Hearn... he had the sponsorships, he looked like a videogame character version of what a HW Champ is meant to look like and had the power to have a great highlight reel against poor opposition... but I think he needed an extra 7-8 fights against gradually better guys in the division before making the step up.

I can't criticise too harshly because look at the money he's made but if we're talking legacy and a full career, is the money going to be enough to make him happy?

It can be a curse too sometimes.

I think AJ has done the best he could have done given when and where he started, you can't really give a fighter who started at 18 the experience of one who started at 10. Those years are lost for ever and you can never get that back so he was eventually always gonna find someone who made that advantage count. In terms of his career, I strongly disagree about the WK fight, WK was more motivated in that fight than he was for Fury ( which was just the umpteenth defense in a row) and he looked fitter and more eager. AJ then fought the best fights he could make, Parker, Pulev, Povetkin etc are all the best guys outside Fury (who for most of that time was retired/on his low key return against tomato cans) or Wilder who dodged him to fight nobodies.

You can't criticise EH, he did the perfect job with AJ he didn't fight for the title till fight 16 which is pretty late for an Olympic gold medallist these days and he expert positioned him to get the IBF belt against Martin. He continued to look good until Ruiz and unbeknownst to us at the time that finished AJ's ability to commit to an attack and that is ultimately what has lead to rule out any chance of further success. If he had the 7 or 8 extra fights you suggest he wouldn't have been able to seize the opportunities he did and would be lucky to have made 1/10 of the money he has made and he still wouldn't have had that 8-10 years of amateur childhood training that would allow him to fight Usyk on equal terms.

You ask if the money is enough, probably not but he has no more hope of being anything more than the 3rd best HW of the post Klitschko era even if he retires now and if he continues he will likely tarnish that further given he isn't the pre-Ruiz fighter any more.

 

[Ar558a]

Good post and assessment ahead of the Joshua/Usyk II fight. With AJ having lost 3 of his last 5 fights, he will definitely need some lesser talent before him-----and some convincing wins to get some confidence back.

On paper, he should not have lost to Ruiz or Usyk, but in the ring is where these things are determined and things didn't work out for AJ. Now, does he have the drive to repair the damage his career has taken with these losses or will he be content to just fade away and try to live off what he's already made in the ring and be content with "what was" and leave it at that.

That seems to have worked out for many former fighters if they manage their career earnings well.

I just don't see the motivation fighting tomato cans to give him "confidence" and it will make what goodwill he has left with the public disappear entirely if he is fighting Seferi on DAZN PPV for £25 a pop. AJ has spent his entire career working towards World Champion, Unified Champ and Undisputed. None of those are options going forward I can't see that what he will get from any of it the only reason he will keep fighting is if he just likes it and doesn't care about the money or the fact it may destroy what reputation he has as he can't improve either going forward. As a fan I want him to retire with some dignity but if his heart is set on carrying on then I have to accept that's his choice it's just a little odd to me. You don't see former Man City players getting excited to play Rochdale.

 

[Ar558a]

Dude. I work in a hospital. Lots of gays here, and one of them thinks he's gay, too. The mannerisms, the emotions. Even Hearn talking about what he's going through. Even if he is, there's nothing wrong with that. It is what it is. I just think he should let himself be happy.

I'm not criticising if he is I'm just saying I have seen nothing to indicate that, just seems like idle gossip to me as it makes no difference to his boxing career.

AJ is still young, and I think he had the wrong trainer. While he did better, he fought too small.
I think Jonathan Banks or Sugar Hill Steward would have had AJ utilizing his size advantage. Garcia took away Joshua's jab, and AJ kept leaning over his front foot. I don't know what that was. I didn't even know that AJ's footwork was so bad, but he was very clumsy in this fight. The power of positivity can only take you so far.
You have to correct the things that you are doing wrong. That is what makes you a better fighter.
Joshua has only lost three fights. He just needs to correct a few thins. And he needs to fight like a big man. And he should not be soft in the ring. He needs to be tougher and not let smaller men punk him. Lennox and Wlad both changed their styles and fought smarter. I think AJ can do the same.

Hmm no he isn't he will 33 shortly, he is in the second half of his career even if he fought till 40 and that is extremely unlikely and given what he has already achieved it seem pretty unlikely he would be able to make that scale of changes quickly enough to have any effect on his career positively. Even if he had the capability to make the changes you think would make him competitive by the time he did Usyk and Fury will have retired and he will have no chance to show that improvement and he is still only the no 3 of this era, alot of work for almost no reward.

 

[Ar558a]

Is money not a reward? How much work is it to change to a trainer that will teach you how to utilize the natural gifts you have. And 33 is still relatively young. You are never too old to improve yourself. You just have to have the right attitude, and the right people around you. At this point, AJ doesn't even need to the thinking about Usyk or Fury. He has time to get himself right. Tbf, AJ needs to improve his basic skills. IMHO, he seems to still be learning fundamentals. He can't even throw an effective combination. He has plenty of room for improvement.

Well firstly I don't agree with your assessment, you don't live with Usyk even in a loss as well as he did without a pretty good skill set. Money is only a motivator so far, AJ has ~£100m, is an extra £20m-£30m for another 4 or 5 fights really gonna get him up in the morning I doubt it. As I said earlier, the only reason he stays is entirely for himself because he likes boxing and wants to improve for his own satisfaction not because it will yield him any praise or money as he wont get even a fraction of that compared to what he has already.

 

[Ar558a]

Well, you act as if you know him personally. If not, then it doesn't matter what you or I say. But you are coming off as if I don't know what I'm talking about, and you do. You are also coming off as a person with a defeatist attitude. I guess next you want to give him a participation trophy.
And why the fuck would I live with Usyk? With your analogy of Anthony, it sounds like you are sharing a flat. How do you know what motivates him? How do you know what makes him happy? You seem a bit odd.

I agree it doesn't matter but this is a place to air views of what we think, I'm just airing mine, I'm not saying anything about yours, In terms of defeatist I would say a realist, the reality of what is achievable from here is not that hard to fathom it's not rocket science to see what paths are left available. I'm confused that you don't understand that people would speculate on what might happen or what the motivations would be.

 

[Ar558a]

Sky have posted the Uncut version of AJ’s behaviour postfight.
This is a terrible look and probably what he will be remembered for.

Respect to Usyk for his restraint. If AJ had done this against the likes of Deontay Wilder there would have been an all out Brawl.

Only by those of you looking to find reasons to hate him, which you didn't need to as you do already. This is just a passionate guy who has lost his last chance, yeh it was unconventional and maybe not even the way AJ would have chosen with a clearer head but most of what he said wasn't controversial and he paid tribute to Usyk. Only the haters think, this footnote to his career could possibly overshadow all the great nights.

 

[Ar558a]

This IS a place to air views, and that's what I did. I don't see him as a happy man, and I feel he would be a better fighter if he came in with a clear mind and continence. How would you be confused with someone saying that AJ could be a much better fighter with some tweaking? Do you think Fury and Usyk are unbeatable? You really do seem to lack competitiveness. Why would he not want to be the best if he has a chance to be the best. I personally feel he can beat Usyk, and he has a chance to knock Fury out if he applies himself.

Well I see someone who was frustrated after putting alot into a fight that was key to his future but not someone inherently unhappy. While I believe AJ can improve I think the chances of him doing so quickly enough are slim and while I think neither Fury or Usyk are invincible he won't realistically be in a position to challenge them in the short to medium term even if he could improve his skill level enough to be a realistic challenge. The business of boxing won't allow someone who has lost 3 from 5 to keep challenging the top tier especially when there is a big queue (Joyce, Dubois, Hrgovic etc) waiting for their shot. If he wants to improve and feels he can, I'm not saying he shouldn't but realism says he is unlikely to get the chance to show it against the best now even if he manages it.