[doug.ie]

and why ??

taking into consideration their four fight series when pep was between 26 and 29 years old.

 

[john garfield]

and why ??

taking into consideration their four fight series when pep was between 26 and 29 years old.

Ya neglected to mention, d -- 26 or 29 -- the plane crash that broke Willie's back -- no small consideration

 

[Chatty]

Pep was greater but Saddler had his number - well at that stage of his career anyway, had they fought earlier is another issue altogether.

 

[Vano-irons]

I've always said Pep and will continue to do so. Saddler hit like a middleweight no doubt, but I think he was just a kryptonite to Pep who would have beaten him pre injury for me. I've always considered it a Pacquiao - JMM type

 

[john garfield]

Lemme put it in perspective: at the height of his powers, Willie woulda left Sandy standing on the pier waiting for the ships ta come in.

But like a major league pitcher who's untouchable, but due to age or injury loses a hair off his fastball, he's dead meat.

 

[doug.ie]

Ya neglected to mention, d -- 26 or 29 -- the plane crash that broke Willie's back -- no small consideration

yup...correct JG...has to be the main consideration that.....i read somewhere that after that crash one of willies legs was much shorter than the other

 

[Chatty]

I've always said Pep and will continue to do so. Saddler hit like a middleweight no doubt, but I think he was just a kryptonite to Pep who would have beaten him pre injury for me. I've always considered it a Pacquiao - JMM type

Pretty much have the same opinion although if Saddler connected with force I could see him scoring a KO

 

[Burt Brooks]

Having seen Willie Pep at his prime in 1943, 4 years BEFORE Pep's near fatal airplane crash, against a top lightweight Allie Stolz, and seeing
the rough, tough Sandy Saddler also a few times in Sandy's career, I go with Pep...After his plane accident Pep lost some of his astounding quickness, which was his main forte, and I believe was the main reason why Saddler got the best of Pep in their series of bouts...I remember vividly the second bout they fought in 1949 on a small 10" tv set...Pep gave the greatest exhibition of an escape artist I've seen since Harry Houdini plied his trade...
P.S. Pep beat several opponents that beat Saddler, as a possible clue...Whatever that's worth...

 

[NoMas]

Ima rock with Pep... Cant aruge with Burt Brooks seeing them both fight in their prime! Willie Pep for Me had the best defnse in the history of the sport... Him and Jack Johnson

 

[doug.ie]

in the book "in this corner..", this is what pep had to say about saddler.....also, he speaks about the greaves fight where he won a round without throwing a punch, a lot of people have said this is a myth and newspaper reports from ringside state he connected with punches, but he says he 'thinks' he won it without throwing a punch.......anyway...

 

[doug.ie]

and in the same book this is what saddler had to say about pep..

 

[Flea Man]

Pep is greater but the series works out great with regard to Saddler's standing. Although Pep obviously lost something of himself post-accident, he was still a brilliant fighter of the very highest order. That's the scariest thing: how f'n good did he look before?!

Both bonafide ATGs. Saddler was an ugly, beastly fighter. Hit hard, fought hard and fought rough.

 

[doug.ie]

so flea...in your opinion....did pep win a round of boxing without throwing a punch, based on whats written by him there and what we read was said by ringside reporters

 

[Vano-irons]

so flea...in your opinion....did pep win a round of boxing without throwing a punch, based on whats written by him there and what we read was said by ringside reporters

Willie Pep winning a round without throwing a punch was a genuine myth. The fight in question was Jackie Graves, and I believe it was the 3rd roundst. But by all accounts, the fight was a war. It seems very unlikely that Pep won a round in that particular fight without throwing a punch. That's what I have found anyway

 

[john garfield]

Pep is greater but the series works out great with regard to Saddler's standing. Although Pep obviously lost something of himself post-accident, he was still a brilliant fighter of the very highest order. That's the scariest thing: how f'n good did he look before?!

Both bonafide ATGs. Saddler was an ugly, beastly fighter. Hit hard, fought hard and fought rough.

Pep lost SOMETHING of himself, FM? He was a flitting speed merchant with a fused spine and one leg shorter. Ya suppose?

 

[Flea Man]

so flea...in your opinion....did pep win a round of boxing without throwing a punch, based on whats written by him there and what we read was said by ringside reporters

I'm sure I read summat on ESB that was way more convincing in rejecting the myth as just that.

I'm not sure 3 judges (or ref')would score for someone throwing no punches. Pep was revered but we also know how strict old time ref's could be when it came to activity. Would he get away with it, let alone win the round unanimously? I dunno'.

 

[Boxed Ears]

Not only would I say Pep, but I don't think there should be much question unless you don't take under consideration any of the highly relevant context you've mentioned.

 

[Drew101]

The question is who was the greater featherweight, and the answer would be Pep, based on his gargantuan undefeated streaks (of the length that Saddler could never accumulate) and better record against common opposition. Saddler hit like a rhinoceros (on steroids), and he probably has the style to take at least one fight in three from Pep simply because of his size, power, and punching technique, but he still has to be placed below Pep on ATG featherweight lists. No shame in that, though, since Pep is still my number one at 126lbs.:deal

 

[Lunny]

Thanks for posting those pages @doug.ie, great stuff.

 

[Flea Man]

I do think Pep's resume gets a little underrated as well. It's his consistency that sees him so highly rated while the lack of huge names gets him criticised, but there are so many ranked contenders on there it's unreal!