Who's the greatest amateur ever?

2561 Views 78 Replies 22 Participants Last post by ThinBlack, Jun 8, 2013

JamieC

Discussion Starter · May 9, 2013

Who is the best amateur boxer ever? You can judge it how you want, be that medal haul or performance or whatever. Is it Papp? Stevenson? Savon? Kindelan? Or maybe even Rigondeaux or Lomachenko? Or do people think people like Ray Leonard, Whitaker or Roy Jones etc deserve an honourable mention for good perfomances in Olympics?

Personally I favour ones that consistently perform over various tournaments but can't pick a no. 1, if pushed I'd say Papp

21 - 40 of 79 Posts

O59

· #21 · May 9, 2013

JamieC said:
I'd say that was me but I dont go on ESB anymore :lol: I think he's unbelievably good, he'd slot into the top 5 at lightweight within 2-3 bouts if he wanted and I'm serious. It helps its a poor division, but he could make super feather as he only moved up to lightweight to compete in Olympics after they scrapped his weight and he'd decimate that division as it's even worse. He's not going to learn much as a pro now, he's done it all, just get him in at top level asap.

Definitely wasn't you I don't think, this guy's name was dealt_with.

Very intelligent poster, I just felt he was over the top when it came to Lomachenko.

scribbs

· #22 · May 9, 2013

Mark Breland was a pretty decent amateur going 110-1.

This article was just before he won Olympics although it does list him at 108-1 so that's a misprint as he fought 6 fights in those games

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PpMcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E2MEAAAAIBAJ&dq=mark breland&pg=4745,4552223

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #23 · May 9, 2013

orriray59 said:
Definitely wasn't you I don't think, this guy's name was dealt_with.

Very intelligent poster, I just felt he was over the top when it came to Lomachenko.

Im completely sold on Lomachenko, everything he does is textbook, assuming he has ok stamina over 12 he could take on Broner/Burns/Vazquez within 5 fights and I'd back him. I think in cases like him you've learnt practically everything by the time you turn pro, you've faced every style and he's won comfortably most of the time. Just like Rigo, he easily beat Donaire and he only had a few fights as a pro against no-one that would test him as you don't need them when you're a top amateur for years like that

O59

· #24 · May 9, 2013

JamieC said:
Im completely sold on Lomachenko, everything he does is textbook, assuming he has ok stamina over 12 he could take on Broner/Burns/Vazquez within 5 fights and I'd back him. I think in cases like him you've learnt practically everything by the time you turn pro, you've faced every style and he's won comfortably most of the time. Just like Rigo, he easily beat Donaire and he only had a few fights as a pro against no-one that would test him as you don't need them when you're a top amateur for years like that

True. Still though, you think Rigondeaux would have tooled Donaire like that in his second or third professional fight?

I wouldn't, anyway.

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #25 · May 9, 2013

orriray59 said:
True. Still though, you think Rigondeaux would have tooled Donaire like that in his second or third professional fight?

I wouldn't, anyway.

I absolutely do. What did he learn in the fights in between? They were just run outs for him. His conditioning was not an issue in the Donaire fight so if we assume he trained like that for Donaire if he had had him for his second bout then the result would have been the same

O59

· #26 · May 9, 2013

JamieC said:
I absolutely do. What did he learn in the fights in between? They were just run outs for him. His conditioning was not an issue in the Donaire fight so if we assume he trained like that for Donaire if he had had him for his second bout then the result would have been the same

What did you think of the Cordoba fight?

Luf

· #27 · May 9, 2013

He looked shite against Cordoba. Was very close and could easily have gone the other way

Chatty

· #28 · May 9, 2013

Here's some records for you to look at:

Oscar De La Hoya: 223 - 5
Manny Pacquiao:60-4
Marco Antonio Barrera: 100-4
Muhammad Ali: 100-5, or 99-8, 134-7, 137-7
Floyd Mayweather: 84-6
Pernell Whitaker: 201-13
Donald Curry: 400-4
Roy Jones Jr. 121-13
what do you think is the best?
Edit: I got alot of amateur records from all time greats/ not so greats.
Felix Savon (358-17)
Teofilo Stevenson (302-20)
Laszlo Papp (301-12-6)
Terry Norris (291-4)
Virgil Hill (250-11)
Mike McCallum (240-10)
Kennedy McKinney (214-13)
Pernell Whitaker (201-14)
John Mugabi (195-5)
Vitali Klitschko (195-15)
Leon Spinks (181-9)
Sugar Ray Leonard (165-5)
Danny Romero (127-5)
Wilfredo Benitez (123-6)
Harry Arroyo (120-15)
Nino Benvenuti (119-1)
Jose Napoles (113-1)
Mark Breland (110-1)
Kid Chocolate (100-0)
Muhammad Ali (100-5)
Vinny Pazienza (100-12)
Meldrick Taylor (99-4)
Michael Carbajal (94-9)
Michael Spinks (93-7)
Tony Zale (87-8)
Sugar Ray Robinson (85-0)
Carlos Monzon (79-7)
Hector Camacho (75-4)
Maurice Blocker (73-3)
Roger Mayweather (64-4)
Simon Brown (63-2)
Willie Pep (62-3)
Yoko Gushiken (62-3)
Naseem Hamed (62-5)
Ingemar Johansson (61-10)
Alexis Arguello (58-2)
Wilfredo Gomez (58-2-1)
Henry Armstrong (58-4)
Marvin Hagler (55-1)
Felix Trinidad (51-6)
Joe Louis (50-4)
Azumah Nelson (50-2)
Michael Moorer (48-16)
Ray Mancini (43-7)
Ezzard Charles (42-0)
Nigel Benn (41-1)
Floyd Patterson (40-4)
Ricardo Lopez (37-1)
Benny Lynch (35-2)
Carlos Zarate (33-0)
Iran Barkley (30-4)
Edwin Rosario (30-2)
Vito Antuofermo (29-1)
Bobby Czyz (24-2)
Chiquita Gonzalez (23-0)
Jesse James Leija (23-5)
Chris Eubank (19-7)
Rocky Marciano (9-4)
Jeff Lacy (209-12)
Evander Holyfield (160-14)
Wladimir Klitschko (134-6)
Zab Judah (110-5)
Erik Morales (108-6)
Diego Corrales (105-12)
Acelino Freitas (74-2)
Rosendo Alavarez (66-12)
Kassim Ouma (60-3)
Marco Antonio Barrera (56-4)
Ike Quartey (50-4)
Vivian Harris (45-5)
Juan Manuel Marquez (44-2)
Manuel Medina (40-6)
Jorge Arce (37-3)
Montell Griffin (36-5)
Antonio Margarito (21-3)
James Toney (20-2)
Jean-Marc Mormeck (13-2)
Nikolai Valuev (12-3)

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Michael

· #29 · May 9, 2013

Id imagine it was one of Felix Savon, Rigo, Lomachenko, Teófilo Stevenson, Lazlo Papp, Mario Kindelan. Mark Breland was amazingly good as an amateur while he was there, only lost 1 in a hundred matches or something.

Dick McTagart is the best British one anyways

O59

· #30 · May 9, 2013

How did Benitez fit in so many amateur bouts considering he won his world title at such a young age?

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #31 · May 9, 2013 (Edited)

orriray59 said:
What did you think of the Cordoba fight?

Not a classic :lol: I didnt think it was a split decision, i thought he handled it fairly well and won easily and that was never a knockdown that got scored against him.

O59

· #32 · May 9, 2013 (Edited)

I never thought Rigondeaux was behind in the Cordoba fight if I'm being honest. Don't understand the split-decision at all. I went to score it believing it was controversial or something and stopped scoring after a while.

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #33 · May 9, 2013

lufcrazy said:
He looked shite against Cordoba. Was very close and could easily have gone the other way

really? i thought he could have made it easier, but i thought he walked it, really didnt think it was close

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #34 · May 9, 2013

orriray59 said:
I never thought Rigondeaux was behind in the Cordoba fight if I'm being honest. Don't understand the split-decision at all. I went to score it believing it was controversial or something and stopped scoring after a while.

ye same he breezed it. His first real test as a pro was Donaire, and that was more a test of discipline with a brief chin check chucked in. He didn't really have to adjust or fight his way back into a contest, if I saw him listed as someone's p4p no 1 I wouldn't argue too much (I think Floyd deserves it just to point that out) as I'm not sure there's many people that could take someone who was many's no 2 and make them look basic

O59

· #35 · May 9, 2013

Nah, I'd have to vehemently disagree with somebody placing Rigondeaux at #1. Why should we rank him above Juan Manuel Marquez, y'know? Marquez just stopped Manny Pacquiao, a top 5 P4P boxer at the time I believe after he was robbed of a victory against P4P top 10 Timothy Bradley.

Luf

· #36 · May 9, 2013

Might rewatch it and let you guys k ow what I think :good

O59

· #37 · May 9, 2013

:lol: Don't put yourself through it, man. You've already watched John-Marquez this week.

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #38 · May 9, 2013

orriray59 said:
Nah, I'd have to vehemently disagree with somebody placing Rigondeaux at #1. Why should we rank him above Juan Manuel Marquez, y'know? Marquez just stopped Manny Pacquiao, a top 5 P4P boxer at the time I believe after he was robbed of a victory against P4P top 10 Timothy Bradley.

True I think Marquez gets criminally underrated and should be at least no 2. However, unlike weight rankings p4p is based purely on who you think is the best boxer in the world regardless of weight and names on their slate is only an indicator rather than a criteria, or at least thats how it was intended. But just to make clear I wouldn't put Rigo above JMM and I do take records into account :lol:

JamieC

Discussion Starter · #39 · May 9, 2013

lufcrazy said:
Might rewatch it and let you guys k ow what I think :good

ye like Orriray said, dont do it to yourself

O59

· #40 · May 9, 2013

JamieC said:
True I think Marquez gets criminally underrated and should be at least no 2. However, unlike weight rankings p4p is based purely on who you think is the best boxer in the world regardless of weight and names on their slate is only an indicator rather than a criteria, or at least thats how it was intended. But just to make clear I wouldn't put Rigo above JMM and I do take records into account :lol:

Alright then. :good

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