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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If we were to magically put wlad & vitali in the same era as a prime Jeffries with obviously the rule set of the era would the brothers rule as they do today or would the fighters of the day have skills to off set the size difference
 

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Back to Jeffries? So 20/25/45 rounds contests?

Physical stats.

Wladimir Klitschko. Height: 6′ 6″. Reach: 81″.
Vitali Klitschko. Height: 6′ 7″. Reach: 79″.

Quite a few interesting contests there, I'm thinking opponent list:

James Jeffries. Height: 6′ 0″. Reach: 76½″.
Bob Fitzsimmons. Height: 5′ 11½″. Reach: 71½″.
James J. Corbett. Height: 6′ 1″. Reach: 73″.
Peter Jackson. Height: 6′ 1½″. Reach: 77″.
Tom Sharkey. Height: 5′ 8″. Reach: 70½″.
Peter Maher. Height: 5′ 11½″. Reach: 74″.

At 6′ 1½″, Jackson would be the tallest of the opposition. For a visual guide, Eddie Chambers, who fought Wladimir in 2010 is 6′ 1″.



The Klitschko's would also outweigh their opposition by anything up to 40-60lbs, except for Jeffries, who could come in 210-240.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Back to Jeffries? So 20/25/45 rounds contests?

Physical stats.

Wladimir Klitschko. Height: 6′ 6″. Reach: 81″.
Vitali Klitschko. Height: 6′ 7″. Reach: 79″.

Quite a few interesting contests there, I'm thinking opponent list:

James Jeffries. Height: 6′ 0″. Reach: 76½″.
Bob Fitzsimmons. Height: 5′ 11½″. Reach: 71½″.
James J. Corbett. Height: 6′ 1″. Reach: 73″.
Peter Jackson. Height: 6′ 1½″. Reach: 77″.
Tom Sharkey. Height: 5′ 8″. Reach: 70½″.
Peter Maher. Height: 5′ 11½″. Reach: 74″.

At 6′ 1½″, Jackson would be the tallest of the opposition. For a visual guide, Eddie Chambers, who fought Wladimir in 2010 is 6′ 1″.



The Klitschko's would also outweigh their opposition by anything up to 40-60lbs, except for Jeffries, who could come in 210-240.

Smaller gloves different rule set different infighting skills would none of these give the old chaps an advantage after all the brothers are just drop through a time portal so to a degree are rookies
 

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Smaller gloves different rule set different infighting skills would none of these give the old chaps an advantage after all the brothers are just drop through a time portal so to a degree are rookies
Definitely would be more entertaining than any potential Klitschko match up around at the moment.

I would love to witness either Klitschko vs. Tom Sharkey. Would Sharkey get inside? Could he survive Klitschko's jab... and his cross? Would Klitschko defense hold up to Sharkey's relentless pressure?

Jeffries would obviously be the best choice for an outright win, especially in those later rounds.

I know I've got all the Heavyweight Champs measurements somewhere, try and locate it for a comparison between two.
 

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Well, an old Bob Fitzsimmons kicked the absolute granny out of Jeff and was in the verge of stopping him. While he was perhaps the hardest p4p hitter of all time, I think Wlad's straight right is probably more powerful.

Jeff beat some pretty good fighters, but the most of them were well passed their best (Corbett and Fitz). Ruhlin, Tom Sharkey (dirty little fucker) and Jackson were his best wins. But they are nowhere near as good as either brother IMO.

Jeff was a good fighter. A big puncher. But most of all he was very durable. But there's only so much he could take. Johnson was toying with him from the second round and ended up stopping him. I can't see either brother having trouble stopping Jeff somewhere around the 15th. On tape he doesn't look good. He doesn't get past Wlad's jab IMO, and Vitali smashes him up.
 

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Well, an old Bob Fitzsimmons kicked the absolute granny out of Jeff and was in the verge of stopping him. While he was perhaps the hardest p4p hitter of all time, I think Wlad's straight right is probably more powerful.
Fitz certainly did cut Jim up something good, but must be noted that Fitz had wrapped his hands for this fight - not common practice for the times, so his punches were no doubt more powerful than previous.

Plus sure Fitz broke a hand, or both, on Jeffries head, due to Jeffries habit of crouching and taking blows on the top of his head.


Jeff beat some pretty good fighters, but the most of them were well passed their best (Corbett and Fitz). Ruhlin, Tom Sharkey (dirty little fucker) and Jackson were his best wins. But they are nowhere near as good as either brother IMO.
Corbett was a name (money) fight, and sure their last contest was a retire fund raiser for Corbett. Jeffries has all the names from the period on his record.

Jeff was a good fighter. A big puncher. But most of all he was very durable. But there's only so much he could take. Johnson was toying with him from the second round and ended up stopping him. I can't see either brother having trouble stopping Jeff somewhere around the 15th. On tape he doesn't look good. He doesn't get past Wlad's jab IMO, and Vitali smashes him up.
I'm not sure in his prime there was a limit to how much Jeffries could take.

I like to use Marciano as a starting point when describing Jeffries' character. I think an opponent would have to kill him to stop the fight.

He was inactive for 6 years prior to the Johnson fight, and needed to shed in excess of 100lbs. Throw in the pressure on him when he had little-to-no-chance, and Johnson although it was his style, still took some time to render Jeffries weak enough to put on the canvas.

I'm still not saying Jeffries would be a dead cert to beat either Klitschko, but when they got into that ring, if their skill sets were bridgeable - Jeffries would win.
 

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Fitz certainly did cut Jim up something good, but must be noted that Fitz had wrapped his hands for this fight - not common practice for the times, so his punches were no doubt more powerful than previous.

Plus sure Fitz broke a hand, or both, on Jeffries head, due to Jeffries habit of crouching and taking blows on the top of his head.


Corbett was a name (money) fight, and sure their last contest was a retire fund raiser for Corbett. Jeffries has all the names from the period on his record.

I'm not sure in his prime there was a limit to how much Jeffries could take.

I like to use Marciano as a starting point when describing Jeffries' character. I think an opponent would have to kill him to stop the fight.

He was inactive for 6 years prior to the Johnson fight, and needed to shed in excess of 100lbs. Throw in the pressure on him when he had little-to-no-chance, and Johnson although it was his style, still took some time to render Jeffries weak enough to put on the canvas.

I'm still not saying Jeffries would be a dead cert to beat either Klitschko, but when they got into that ring, if their skill sets were bridgeable - Jeffries would win.
We can't say that Fitz had his hands wrapped with an illegal product. We just don't know for certain. It is heavily rumoured because of how much damage his punches did compared with the first fight. But it most be noted that Fitzsimmons was spotted drunk a day before their first fight, which he didn't seem to take seriously. Plus Jeff gave him more than enough respect and didn't charge forward as much as he did in the second meeting.

Jeffries does have all the names on his record (Choyneski aside), but it was an incredibly thin talent pool to choose from IMO. As I've said, Fitzsimmons and Corbert were both past their best, Sharkey had been destroyed by Fitzsimmons. Ruhlin is likely one of his better wins, and he isn't a great heavyweight.

There was definitely a limit to what he could take. Don't get me wrong, he had an incredible chin, and I don't put too much emphasis on the Johnson fight given the circumstances (even then, Jack was toying with him and could have stopped him anytime he wanted IMO). But a 170lb or so Fitzsimmons laid an absolute beating on Jeffries. You could only imagine the damage a 250lb Wlad could potentially do.

How the fight goes:

I find it hard to imagine Jeff slipping that jab if I'm honest. I have all the footage on Jeffries, and he doesn't look great at all. I'm not sure he has the footwork or head moment to do so. My problem would lie when Jeff does get inside. Wlad would look to spoil (which he is pretty good at). Jeff might be physically stronger, but I dunno if there would be that much in it given the weight of both fighters.

I also think Jeff's power is a little exaggerated. He couldn't get rid of Choyneski (who Fitzsimmons sparked), nor Sharkey who Fitzsimmons stopped also (despite the bullshit DQ). It took him until the 24th to stop Corbett who Bob again accounted for, 10 rounds quicker.

Jeff was far from unbeatable in his prime. He was comprehensively outboxed by Gentlemen Jim in their first fight, and Fitzsimmons had him on the edge also. Jeff used his physical attributes to catch up with both eventually, but he couldn't rely on them against a 6ft 7" Wlad who not only outweighed him, but who likely hits harder and has one of the best jabs in HW history.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
We can't say that Fitz had his hands wrapped with an illegal product. We just don't know for certain. It is heavily rumoured because of how much damage his punches did compared with the first fight. But it most be noted that Fitzsimmons was spotted drunk a day before their first fight, which he didn't seem to take seriously. Plus Jeff gave him more than enough respect and didn't charge forward as much as he did in the second meeting.

Jeffries does have all the names on his record (Choyneski aside), but it was an incredibly thin talent pool to choose from IMO. As I've said, Fitzsimmons and Corbert were both past their best, Sharkey had been destroyed by Fitzsimmons. Ruhlin is likely one of his better wins, and he isn't a great heavyweight.
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Used part of your post here you mention a thin talent pool which throws up another question concerning both klits . Do you think that in the future people will be looking at there tittle reigns and saying yeah they were good but the talent pool was very thin in there era
 

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Used part of your post here you mention a thin talent pool which throws up another question concerning both klits . Do you think that in the future people will be looking at there tittle reigns and saying yeah they were good but the talent pool was very thin in there era
Of course they will. People slag them off now for it, and will continue to do so no doubt. Some even say the same out Louis' era (which i dont agree with). You can only beat what is in front of you. But i still think Wlad's resume is better than Jeff's
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Of course they will. People slag them off now for it, and will continue to do so no doubt. Some even say the same out Louis' era (which i dont agree with). You can only beat what is in front of you. But i still think Wlad's resume is better than Jeff's
I have respect for both wlad and vitali as you say they can only beat what is in front of them . But I can't see either of the brothers beating Louis,Frazier,Ali,foreman or Holmes and other past greats . What I do wonder though is they had relocated taken american citizenship how much kinder the American press would of viewd them
 

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I have respect for both wlad and vitali as you say they can only beat what is in front of them . But I can't see either of the brothers beating Louis,Frazier,Ali,foreman or Holmes and other past greats . What I do wonder though is they had relocated taken american citizenship how much kinder the American press would of viewd them
It's hard for me to envision either beating any of the guys you mentioned. I'd give Wlad a semi decent chance of beating Holmes (I think Wlad's jab is just that bit better). But these are the elite HWs in history, and not many beat them (Jeffries certainly doesn't)

I have Wlad in my top 15 HWs, on the verge of a top 10 spot. Jeffries would be above Vitali for me, even tho I think he loses to both brothers (head to head ability doesn't play such an important role in my rankings overall).
 

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There was definitely a limit to what he could take. Don't get me wrong, he had an incredible chin, and I don't put too much emphasis on the Johnson fight given the circumstances (even then, Jack was toying with him and could have stopped him anytime he wanted IMO). But a 170lb or so Fitzsimmons laid an absolute beating on Jeffries. You could only imagine the damage a 250lb Wlad could potentially do.
Yes agreed, of course everyone has a limit, I was just inferring that Jeffries was one tough S.O.B.

I find it hard to imagine Jeff slipping that jab if I'm honest. I have all the footage on Jeffries, and he doesn't look great at all. I'm not sure he has the footwork or head moment to do so. My problem would lie when Jeff does get inside. Wlad would look to spoil (which he is pretty good at). Jeff might be physically stronger, but I dunno if there would be that much in it given the weight of both fighters.
No success for Jeffries little shoulder dropping, dipping movement to right? From what I've seen (granted nothing of real quality) Jeffries seems a good judge of striking zone... something I do rate Wladimir at.

I also think Jeff's power is a little exaggerated. He couldn't get rid of Choyneski (who Fitzsimmons sparked), nor Sharkey who Fitzsimmons stopped also (despite the bullshit DQ). It took him until the 24th to stop Corbett who Bob again accounted for, 10 rounds quicker.
Yeah Jim was more of a wear-down-opponent type of boxer. I do think he possessed good power, but it was primarily in that left hand of his.

Jeff was far from unbeatable in his prime. He was comprehensively outboxed by Gentlemen Jim in their first fight, and Fitzsimmons had him on the edge also. Jeff used his physical attributes to catch up with both eventually, but he couldn't rely on them against a 6ft 7" Wlad who not only outweighed him, but who likely hits harder and has one of the best jabs in HW history.
Find myself agreeing. He seemed beatable, but he wasn't. Why I used the Marciano comparison earlier. I like Wladimir's jab, haven't thought of where to rate in, but yeah it's effective.
 
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