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How Accurate Is Compubox really...

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Johnstown

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
It gets quoted like it is unbiased objective truth. But really it's just a few guys counting punches...trying to decide if they land or not.

That's difficult at any level...world class guys below 160 is going to be damn near impossible due to speed.

I for one don't buy the Horn Pacquiao numbers...I think they were, in "reality" much closer.
 
#3 ·
Yeah they're treated as objective statistics akin to a goal in football or a field goal in basketball but they're merely the reflection of the intersubjective agreement of two guys sitting ringside and are not a measure of anything defined by the rules of the sport. I thought Pacquiao got screwed but I have no interest in using coarse measures of fight statistics to come to that conclusion.

CompuBox has been ripped to shreds across many fights but his remains my favorite critique: http://thecruelestsport.com/2010/12/13/the-10th-round-an-overview-or-why-compubox-is-useless/
 
#4 ·
I only take compubox credible when it comes to volume. It is cool to see them for a fighter across multiple fights.

I'd never point to it as evidence of winning a round or fight
 
#5 ·
Seriously though, I tend to be kind of defensive of Compubox. I think the stats are fantastic for further understanding what happened or what is happening in a fight, but it is by no means the entire story of any fight.

As far as it being "just a few guys counting punches".. you could say that.. but you could also say that those guys know exactly what they are looking at and what they are counting. There are several former fighters counting for compubox, the late Genaro Hernandez worked for them, for example. I wouldn't say "just a few guys"... these aren't just data input guys, these are guys who know the sport and aren't just counting willy nilly. I found this video informative.

 
#6 ·
bballchump11 said:
I only take compubox credible when it comes to volume. It is cool to see them for a fighter across multiple fights.

I'd never point to it as evidence of winning a round or fight
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It's not even that accurate when it comes to volume. I've tried counting punches thrown and landed for a few fights/specific rounds and even the punches thrown count can be way off. It was Margarito-Clottey where Margarito supposedly landed 1200~ punches - I counted them and I had him throwing 1877 (if I remember correctly). I think I watched each round and used one of those counters you click each time to make the number go up; once I was happy I had counted all the punches fairly reliably, I moved onto the next round Now, I could perhaps have been too generous in counting what may be considered a punch, but not to the tune of 600 punches too many. Doing the CompuBox stats is not easy and they only have one chance to do it (and they aren't always in the right position to tell what's landed or not), so it's natural they won't be able to count all the punches thrown, especially in combination.
 
#7 ·
I don't think I've ever seen anyone quote compubox as unbiased objective truth. It's referenced as one part of an overall picture. It should always be taken as such. It is data that's available to us that gives us one statistical read of a fight. If there were more punch counts we could better gauge its accuracy. It can't be entirely dismissed and it can't be someone's entire case.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Kurushi said:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone quote compubox as unbiased objective truth. It's referenced as one part of an overall picture. It should always be taken as such. It is data that's available to us that gives us one statistical read of a fight. If there were more punch counts we could better gauge its accuracy. It can't be entirely dismissed and it can't be someone's entire case.
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Not true. Most people, even serious fans tend to view it as highly accurate. (Same for "Punch Stats.") Even though nothing could be further from the truth, you see this constantly in discussion threads.

Even if those stats are only seen as part of the picture, they are seen as an ACCURATE part of the picture, and yet they are often laughably off, just like the commentators. It's just the opinion of a couple of guys, punching numbers into laptops.
I'd rather get stats from Dwyer.
Heck, I'd rather read a scorecard from @MichiganWarrior! :sad5
 
#9 ·
Kurushi said:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone quote compubox as unbiased objective truth. It's referenced as one part of an overall picture. It should always be taken as such. It is data that's available to us that gives us one statistical read of a fight. If there were more punch counts we could better gauge its accuracy. It can't be entirely dismissed and it can't be someone's entire case.
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casuals do it all of the time. 2 coworkers today asked me about the fight and mentioned the punch stats. For example I told one that the fight was close and could have gone either way. Then he responded by asking, "But didn't Pacquiao land like 50 punches more?"
 
#13 ·
1971791 said:
It's not even that accurate when it comes to volume. I've tried counting punches thrown and landed for a few fights/specific rounds and even the punches thrown count can be way off. It was Margarito-Clottey where Margarito supposedly landed 1200~ punches - I counted them and I had him throwing 1877 (if I remember correctly). I think I watched each round and used one of those counters you click each time to make the number go up; once I was happy I had counted all the punches fairly reliably, I moved onto the next round Now, I could perhaps have been too generous in counting what may be considered a punch, but not to the tune of 600 punches too many. Doing the CompuBox stats is not easy and they only have one chance to do it (and they aren't always in the right position to tell what's landed or not), so it's natural they won't be able to count all the punches thrown, especially in combination.
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Your username makes sense now.
 
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#14 ·
In Pac vs Marquez 3, there was times they have the compibox stats real time on the screen....there were times u could see Juan landing CLEAR punches and it wouldn't give him any, and a coupl times Juan landed and it rang up for Pac.... :lol: ....

Shit was surreal
 
#16 ·
pipe wrenched said:
In Pac vs Marquez 3, there was times they have the compibox stats real time on the screen....there were times u could see Juan landing CLEAR punches and it wouldn't give him any, and a coupl times Juan landed and it rang up for Pac.... :lol: ....

Shit was surreal
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Exactly. There's a reason that years ago this was the new thing and then magically disappeared. All it did was show that punch stats are a joke.
 
#17 ·
They should have a post fight analysis of the punches in which the people responsible for the stats rewatch the fight and are therefore able to pause it, go back, play bits in slow motion and check replays etc, where the figures would then be far more accurate...especially for punches landed.
 
#18 ·
CASH_718 said:
Exactly. There's a reason that years ago this was the new thing and then magically disappeared. All it did was show that punch stats are a joke.
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Then there's also to be taken into account that they are being paid by "let's say HBO" and will therefore show for the house fighter no different than biased commentators...

A lot of times, anyways....
 
#19 ·
I have always had confidence in the stats. They are a staple for analysts and hardcore fans. If it was not accurate at all it would be long dead by now.

We dont take the stats as concrete evidence though. Just a general indication of what happened
 
#20 ·
bballchump11 said:
I only take compubox credible when it comes to volume. It is cool to see them for a fighter across multiple fights.

I'd never point to it as evidence of winning a round or fight
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The thing I hate about compubox is at the end the commentators will say something like "Pacquiao won he outlanded him by 100 punches" but them 100 punches could have been in the last 3 rounds

If compubox is going to be used it has to be used on a round by round basis, although its interesting to see the overall stats, they cant be used in an argument for scoring it to someone
 
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