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Who do you think will win?

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Chavez stoppage for me. I'm not all that knowledgable on Lee but in the few fights I've seen him in I can distinctly remember him not impressing me. Chavez may be overhyped (or at least was overhyped) but I think the talent is there.
 
I think chavez has little problems here, he is rather underrated than overrated these days and although not spectacular he is solid enough at world level to give most non elite level fighters a hard nights work. I'm going to go for a UD but wouldn't be surprised if he stopped lee
 
Yeah, it's an outdoor fight. And apparently, the canopy blew away, and tore the canvas. So, right now, they are repairing the ring. A bit of a cluster going on....should have just had this indoors at the Don Haskins Center, where Abner Mares and Eric Morel fought a couple of months ago.
Sounds like the fight could easily descend into farce...

I LOVE it!
 
I've never been convinced Lee was as good as his fans and Manny Steward made out. And conversely I've never been convinced that Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr was as bad as his detractors made out. He's taken a lot of flack for being gifted the WBC Middleweight Title but that whole controversy could have been avoided if DiBella didn't decide to follow HBO's orders and decline Zbik as an opponent for Martinez. Hell, if Martinez sold enough tickets or was willing to travel to Germany they could have went ahead without HBO. They don't, didn't and thus went with HBO's wishes - it wasn't the great 'travesty' that some made it out to be.

Anyway, I expect Chavez and Lee to be fairly close for the early rounds. But as the fight goes on Chavez will wear Lee down with his body work, and once Lee slows down his output Chavez's jab will keep him at bay. I'm expecting a late stoppage win for Chavez, but earlier in the week I thought he'd win on points.

Chavez, Jr is a good fighter - he might never be good enough to shed the 'Jr' from his name but I think he'll beat Lee and will, in time, prove himself to be a good fighter in his own right.
 
He's taken a lot of flack for being gifted the WBC Middleweight Title but that whole controversy could have been avoided if DiBella didn't decide to follow HBO's orders and decline Zbik as an opponent for Martinez. Hell, if Martinez sold enough tickets or was willing to travel to Germany they could have went ahead without HBO. They don't, didn't and thus went with HBO's wishes - it wasn't the great 'travesty' that some made it out to be.
Then what? He fights Zbik for peanuts (in comparison), loses his HBO cash for the future, and is still no closer to fighting Chavez. He just gets a green belt around his waist.
 
I've never been convinced Lee was as good as his fans and Manny Steward made out.
His fans are, with a few exceptions, notorious fucktards that think Lee punches like Hearns despite never stopping anyone of any note.

And conversely I've never been convinced that Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr was as bad as his detractors made out.
Well he was terrible before he joined Roach. He's made MASSIVE improvements in that short time.

He's taken a lot of flack for being gifted the WBC Middleweight Title
And the dreadful, coddling fights he had before then.

but that whole controversy could have been avoided if DiBella didn't decide to follow HBO's orders and decline Zbik as an opponent for Martinez. Hell, if Martinez sold enough tickets or was willing to travel to Germany they could have went ahead without HBO. They don't, didn't and thus went with HBO's wishes - it wasn't the great 'travesty' that some made it out to be.
Well, it kind of was. HBO rejected Zbik for Martinez, but ok'd Dzinriuk who no one knew either. Yet approved Zbik when he would be fighting Chavez for the now-vacant WBC?

Sturm didn't want Martinez at all. That's never, ever been on the table. I'm not sure why, just because Sergio isn't a ticket-seller, he should be treated like shit by HBO and the WBC just to promote the new boy on the block. He's the best MW (and LMW if he elects to go back) in the world, he's entertaining, good looking and fights good fighters.

What are HBO getting wrong with him?
 
Then what? He fights Zbik for peanuts (in comparison), loses his HBO cash for the future, and is still no closer to fighting Chavez. He just gets a green belt around his waist.
Well, it kind of was. HBO rejected Zbik for Martinez, but ok'd Dzinriuk who no one knew either. Yet approved Zbik when he would be fighting Chavez for the now-vacant WBC?

You don't think there was more to that?
I don't think there was a grand master plan to screw Martinez. If it wasn't for HBO's brass being unhappy that Showtime got the rights to Pacquiao/Mosley - thus giving Top Rank some pulling power with HBO - then I doubt Chavez would even have been on HBO last year, let alone fighting Zbik. But ultimately Martinez himself has no right to lay any claim to the daft green belt - he chose not to fight his mandatory challenger, and was stripped. If it wasn't for the fact that Martinez is considered a top P4P guy by boxing diehards and many of them having a hard-on to see Chavez get knocked out for not being his dad then it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as it is now anyway.

Hell, if Martinez could sell tickets at all then I doubt he'd be so desperate for the fight. I don't blame him for wanting a fight that he reckons he'd win, make some good money from and maybe boost his profile - I'm just tired of it being brought up on various sites as though Martinez is a victim.
 
I don't think there was a grand master plan to screw Martinez. If it wasn't for HBO's brass being unhappy that Showtime got the rights to Pacquiao/Mosley - thus giving Top Rank some pulling power with HBO - then I doubt Chavez would even have been on HBO last year, let alone fighting Zbik.
Seriously? HBO LOVES Chavez because, average he might be, a ticket seller and viewer attraction he is. Bob used to make good money on all-Mex PPVs while Jr battered bus drivers. He sells.

But ultimately Martinez himself has no right to lay any claim to the daft green belt - he chose not to fight his mandatory challenger, and was stripped.
But HBO was happy to feature him just because he'd been upgraded to champion? Or was it because Bob wanted Chavez to get a shot?

If it wasn't for the fact that Martinez is considered a top P4P guy by boxing diehards and many of them having a hard-on to see Chavez get knocked out for not being his dad then it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as it is now anyway.
NO, that's not why people are desperate, I want to see Jr in with someone good. Lee's a decent first step. But he was meant to fight Sergio in his last match.

Hell, if Martinez could sell tickets at all then I doubt he'd be so desperate for the fight.
Irrelevant. He DOES want the fight, whatever the reason might be.

I don't blame him for wanting a fight that he reckons he'd win, make some good money from and maybe boost his profile - I'm just tired of it being brought up on various sites as though Martinez is a victim.
Mate, this is laughable. Here's what happened. Sergio beat Williams and the agreement from the WBC was EITHER: the winner of Lemieux-Rubio, or Chavez Jr (who got first dibs on the fight). Chavez Jr says "NO!" and Sergio/HBO say no to Zbik. So, ok, strip him. Fine. But Zbik should have been fighting Rubio, because Chavez/TR said they didn't want the option on Sergio. The immediately invoked it as soon as Sergio was shifted and Rubio got shut out until AFTER Julio had the belt.

All's well, I guess since Marco got his payday. But for me, it was all a little too convenient to help HBO mend fences with the Bobfather and get big views on son-of-the-legend wee Julio. But they told Sergio he could have the fight with Chavez as soon as he wanted it, then agreed he could fight Manfredo and Rubio. Apparently they now have a contract where Sergio gets to fight Chavez next, but they've already bailed once and I can see them jumping to 168 to avoid the (certain) loss.
 
Seriously? HBO LOVES Chavez because, average he might be, a ticket seller and viewer attraction he is. Bob used to make good money on all-Mex PPVs while Jr battered bus drivers. He sells.
He sold tickets and did solid enough business on Top Rank's Latin Fury PPVs - or whatever they called his PPVs - before and they weren't interested. It's hardly a coincidence that the timing of HBO being interested in Chavez - Cotto and Pacquiao PPV events being on Showtime isn't the sort of thing HBO brass wants.

The mandatory that HBO then approved in a challenge against Chavez for the vacant title?
Yeah. Martinez wasn't obligated to turn it down because HBO said so - he did so because he'd rather have gotten more money for fighting on HBO than keep the title. Which I'm not criticising - but I don't buy him genuinely feeling that hurt or screwed over by the WBC or HBO, as if he valued the WBC belt that highly he'd have kept onto it. He's after the pay day.

NO, that's not why people are desperate, I want to see Jr in with someone good. Lee's a decent first step. But he was meant to fight Sergio in his last match.
I didn't say everyone wants to see Chavez, Jr knocked out though, did I? I was referring to those that do want him to get bludgeoned in a boxing ring simply because he's not the second coming of Julio Cesar Chavez. I wasn't implying that you, or @Wallet or any other sensible person wants that. As I don't disagree with the fact he's been brought on pretty slowly in terms of being a 'world' title. I don't consider Lee a step up from Zbik or Rubio mind, just a southpaw that poses different problems stylistically. And I don't think there's owt wrong with that. Considering who Chavezito was fighting a few years back he's came a long way.

Irrelevant. He DOES want the fight, whatever the reason might be.

Mate, this is laughable. Here's what happened. Sergio beat Williams and the agreement from the WBC was EITHER: the winner of Lemieux-Rubio, or Chavez Jr (who got first dibs on the fight). Chavez Jr says "NO!" and Sergio/HBO say no to Zbik. So, ok, strip him. Fine. But Zbik should have been fighting Rubio, because Chavez/TR said they didn't want the option on Sergio. The immediately invoked it as soon as Sergio was shifted and Rubio got shut out until AFTER Julio had the belt.

All's well, I guess since Marco got his payday. But for me, it was all a little too convenient to help HBO mend fences with the Bobfather and get big views on son-of-the-legend wee Julio. But they told Sergio he could have the fight with Chavez as soon as he wanted it, then agreed he could fight Manfredo and Rubio. Apparently they now have a contract where Sergio gets to fight Chavez next, but they've already bailed once and I can see them jumping to 168 to avoid the (certain) loss.
Would Martinez have refused Lemieux on the basis he would have been a shit challenger? Not if HBO were to approve it. If he wanted to keep a hold of the alphabet title then he'd have made the mandatory. He's the World Middleweight Champion though, so the need for the alphabet title isn't there if HBO are happy to market his fights under that banner. The whole "I was screwed, Chavez is ducking me!" is DiBella's way of trying to built up some demand for the fight. Which I get. I understand that. And I don't really mind it - nor care about it either - but I'm a bit sick of the stories about it that portray Martinez as a samaritan that got buggered by the WBC and Top Rank in a dark alley.

As for the contract? It's basically just a draft document that states that the winner of Chavez/Lee will fight Martinez and the WBC will honestly, super-seriously enforce it as a mandatory fight. I think if Lee causes Chavezito enough problems though and he still wins he'll likely vacate, move to super-middleweight, fight Pavlik and Martinez will fight for the vacated belt.
 
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